Abused on the table for this play. Comments

JockBMW

Hi Guys,

Wondered about your comments on this hand.  Suffice to say the Villan is a serial moaner, and always willing to dispense his wisdom.. and chips.. to anyone on the table.

Looking back at the hand. 

I was happy with the pre flop raise from late position

Should have bet the flop wth my flush draw?

Turn. Was happy to peel one off for a small percentage of my stack. less than 10% to hit my flush.  a 200 bet to get 700 back is a marginal call on a flush draw but as I said I had the chips for it 

River.  Couldn't get my chips in fast enough 

My view is the guy tried to slow play his flopped 2 pair and made it cheap enough for me to catch him.  No need to go off on one after the hand.  However if I payed this hand especially badly I'd like to hear you comments about it 

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceV1Small blind 25.0025.002505.00V2Big blind 50.0075.003287.50 Your hole cards3A   V3Fold    V4Fold    JockBMWRaise 100.00175.002215.00V5Call 100.00275.001452.50V1Fold    V2Fold    Flop  3Q9   JockBMWCheck    V5Check    Turn  7   JockBMWCheck    V5Bet 206.25481.251246.25JockBMWCall 206.25687.502008.75River  6   JockBMWCheck    V5All-in 1246.251933.750.00JockBMWCall 1246.253180.00762.50JockBMWShow3A   V5ShowQ9   JockBMWWinFlush to the Ace3180.00 3942.50

Lambert180

Personally I don't like min-raising, even if you make it 125, I'm happier lol.

Once I'm the aggressor, I would c-bet the flop with the nut FD.

And if I'm being truthful it is a bit bad calling the turn (IMO). You might have the chips to do it, but he hasn't, his stack is so small that you need to be stacking him 100% of the time when you hit.

You should see what Coxy thinks.

BigHawk89

Youve flopped huge with the pair and NTFD plus you can still get value from weaker flush draws straight draws etc. id defiantly c bet this flop. Dont mind calling the turn but only if we think the opponent will pay us off on the river if we hit.

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Abused on the table for this play. Comments:

Personally I don't like min-raising, even if you make it 125, I'm happier lol. Once I'm the aggressor, I would c-bet the flop with the nut FD. And if I'm being truthful it is a bit bad calling the turn (IMO). You might have the chips to do it, but he hasn't, his stack is so small that you need to be stacking him 100% of the time when you hit. You should see what Coxy thinks.
Posted by Lambert180

Thanks Lambie Poos ;o)

Yeah I could have played it better.  

re the pre flop raise I had been raising it up by odd amounts, 115, 125 etc.  He had already made a comment on it in the chat box, so I thought I do a standard min raise just to make him think a bit.

I agree I should have bet the flush draw on the flop,  as it turns out I'm sure he would have shoved and I would have folded 

Again I agree the call on the turn was marginal at best.  but there was history with this individual and he had already berated someone for winning a hand with A3.  I couldn't resist the opprtunity to beat him with A 3 again ;o).  Not the most logical way to make a decsion but not a totally bad play

I may delete this before Chris has a chance to see it ;o)

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Abused on the table for this play. Comments:

Youve flopped huge with the pair and NTFD plus you can still get value from weaker flush draws straight draws etc. id defiantly c bet this flop. Dont mind calling the turn but only if we think the opponent will pay us off on the river if we hit.
Posted by BigHawk89

Thanks BH,  this is a definite hole in my game.  It's somrthing I'm working on.  Ty for the comment 

Batkin88

Bet the flop to get it in, however as played you should prob fold the turn and the again as played you should lead the river as alot of the time hands are checking behind on a flushing board.

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Abused on the table for this play. Comments:

Bet the flop to get it in, however as played you should prob fold the turn and the again as played you should lead the river as alot of the time hands are checking behind on a flushing board.
Posted by Batkin88

TY Bat.  Yeah bad play not to bet the river.  didn't even realise that I had done it until I looked back at the hand.  

JockBMW

OK,  I have come to the conclusion that I made a right pigs ear of this hand.

I should have bet bigger than minimum pre flop

I should have bet the flop

The call on the turn was marginal at best

I should have bet the river........   Apart from that I think I played it OK. ;o)

Batkin88

Lol you won thats all that matters .... !!!

Mohican

Perhaps you should send this to your coach to see what he says. Or, do you already know what he's gonna say and don't relish the thought of more lines in detention!!!!

AMYBR

If anyone plays their hand badly here its villain.............

yb

i might raise a tiny bit more pre given that stacks are still > 40 bbs deep, but i don't really have a problem with it and i'd definitely be minraising from the next blind level onwards

i'd definitely want to be betting the flop when your equity is highest though. also i'm not sure where you plucked the 10% figure from, you have 9 cards to hit out of 46 so thats ~20%

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Abused on the table for this play. Comments:

i might raise a tiny bit more pre given that stacks are still /> 40 bbs deep, but i don't really have a problem with it and i'd definitely be minraising from the next blind level onwards i'd definitely want to be betting the flop when your equity is highest though. also i'm not sure where you plucked the 10% figure from, you have 9 cards to hit out of 46 so thats ~20%
Posted by yb

Thanks YB,  The 10% related to the amount of my stack that I needed to call to hit my flush, not the % chance of me hitting the flush 

Unknown

In Response to Re: Abused on the table for this play. Comments:

I may delete this before Chris has a chance to see it ;o)
Posted by JockBMW

You didn't even mention this on Skype this morning, you sly devil!

Pre: You know my opinions on opening sizes, minraise is ok

Flop: You've flopped big, so cbet accordingly. You win outright when 22/44/55/66/77/88 and Ax unpaired hands fold, and have great equity vs any 1pair/drawing hands that call one street.

Turn: EFFECTIVE STACKS. You may only be calling 10% of your stack, but he is betting 20% of his, so you ignore any chips you have that he cannot match. I don't really ever get to this turn situation because I would cbet 100%, but I would prefer shoving than calling, since hands like 9x and pairs under the 9 may bet/fold the turn hoping that you had AK/another unpaired hand.

River: Mega scare card rolls off, you are lucky villain shoves regardless, definitely consider leading here if you think villains hand on turn wasn't a bluff.

WRT to 'river outs' no-one seems to be including trips or aces-up as outs, your pair of 3's can improve without a flush to often give you the best hand! 

profman15

Hi Jock

I think the villain is probably annoyed with himself for not betting the flop himself even though you should have too.

Mind a wn is a win...serves him right if he can't take it with good grace!

mewillows

+1 Amybr and +1000 coxy obviously

Jac35

Just surprised to read you woulkd have folded flop if he shoved!

You've raised ace rag suited and hit nf draw and pair.

This has to be about as good as it gets when you're raising with this kind of hand surely?

The_Don90

im cbetting looking to get it in on the flop

JockBMW

In Response to Re: Abused on the table for this play. Comments:

Just surprised to read you woulkd have folded flop if he shoved! You've raised ace rag suited and hit nf draw and pair. This has to be about as good as it gets when you're raising with this kind of hand surely?
Posted by Jac35

Yeah In Hind sight you're right Jac,  unfortunately I had been missing flush draw, after flush draw for a couple of days , and to be honest i was fed up missing them.  WIth a clear head, it's shove time to any bet on the flop 

TommyD

Preflop - Fine, although I still 3X in the first two levels, mainly because I'm too lazy to type in amounts.

Flop -  CBet, happy to get it in with a pair and NFD, then again I get there a lot.  I'd defo want to be the one making the last bet rather than calling off though.

Turn - As played a bit yucky.  Effective stack is really awkward, but does he fire his air balls after being checked to twice?  We could well call for value being ahead enough of the time, but this makes river play tricky.  If we check/shove I guess we're repping sets and Q9, we're repping a little thin but we can get some better hands to fold.  Plus we have a lovely amount of outs.

River - As played I think that unless you have been repping a bunch of scare cards then you have to check the river.  You've played so passively through the streets I think you have to check and hope they bet.  Don't get me wrong, they check behind a bunch here, but unless you've been repping the scare cards you're going to be so easy to read.  This is why I prefer playing these hands a lot faster early on.

Jac35

I understand exactly what you're saying here.
However much we know it's right to push these draws, when we've been running badly it can be hard to pull the trigger and play optimally.
We should obviously play each hand as a stand alone and make the best play but that is often easier said than done.