Live Cash Poker

Lambert180

I'm thinking about playing some live cash poker, most casinos are a bit out of my BR as they tend to be 50NL at an absolute minimum if not 100NL, but there's a live game I know of that gets held by some students at Oxford Uni which is only 20NL.

I'd just be really interested to hear the thoughts of some experienced live cash game players (especially AMYBR cos I know he plays predominantly live) because I've played quite a few MTTs live but never cash.

I hear alot of people say 50NL live plays like 10NL on Sky and how the BB/100 that can be acheived live is alot higher. So just wanted to get some idea of how they think it'll play.

Obviously it depends on the players at the table, and I'll get to know them as I play but just from common sense I'd imagine people are probably playing a bit more loose, because they're only 1tabling and don't wanna sit there folding 75-80% of hands.

Do you think in general people are more susceptible or less to being bluffed at live cash? I know in live MTTs people tend to play alot tighter and so it's generally easier to bully them because they don't wanna put all their chips over the line. Is that element removed by the fact they can just top up dya think?

Any tips on etiquette which applies specifically to cash? Obviously I don't plan on hit n running or anything like that. When do you generally top up? Online I tend to never let myself go below 90BB but seems like more hassle to be topping up all the time live. How do you go about saying you wanna leave and cash in?

AMYBR

I know live NL100 games that you online nl4 winners would murder.

Most live players are utter tellboxes with next to no dicipline or understanding of equity or approach. 

But what you comment in regard to multi way flops, resulting from 1table, play is true.  But it is equally true that live players do stack alot lighter.

Dont get me wrong their are great live players.  But tI think we can get a feel for villains tendancies much quicker and steadfastly than online.  Its obv a much more situatonal format than online, where were just crunching numbers and looking for favourable spots.

I never used to agree that online players have much better technical aptitude than live players.  But theres few things I've been wronger about.  But take an online player with 100,000's of hands under his belt and place him with 7 oppos who probaly play 200 hands a week and the advantage is just ridiculous.  Think am avging about 6500 dealt hands a day just now.

But countering this is that most NL100/200 tables are high variance to begin with.  But then you have often multiple people playing a high variance game at a high variance table making it tricky.  Just have to accept your losing/break even sessions in the knowledge that your above average sessions are going to be ridic profitable.  I was playing @ Napoleans hull last night.  Pretty fluid table.  Lost every pot going to river as 9/1 fav.  But obv we have been value towning each street, pot becomes so bloated that when those thin beats come in, were commited.  But its pretty myeh.

Live is the only format that I will play for stakes that I find worthwhile, for many and varied reasons.  Some of those issues solely relating to my high online tilt factor, which barely exhists live.  But I have been playing alot of zoom very profitably for the last few months and feeling my game moving up a few notches.  Mainly as am playing long sessions and making decisions on multiple tables 400bbs deep.  But its taken me out of my comfort zone and once again forced me to learn.

I truly believe (and have stated for at least 18months) that a winning nl4 online player would crush live100.  They have an understanding of the game that is just so far removed from their opponents.  Its still a grind, in many of the same ways.  But you win at nl4 by picking your spots and valuetowning the inferior/gambly player.  Its far more similar than you'd think.  Weak hero calls and sigh calls are just far more frequent than hero folds.

Those players that you instantly know will own you, keep away from.  And you will know them.  But just maintain the same mentality as you would online.  But be prepared to play significantly more situationally.

I've only ever sat down in one venue where I truly felt uncomfortable.   There are plenty of live recs, as there are online.  A good way to improve your game is to play multiple forms of poker, but I think playing poker in different formats is equally important.

Dont forget there are many prominent players who just will not play online, for perfectly valid reasons.  I find it truly shocking that people habitually play online, who have never played live.  Its an alien concept. 

Anywho bud, pretty drunk so sense am rambling.  Just gone with the shotgun approach, but if there are any specifics you want me to look at inbox me and I'll reply as early as I can.  But am away until wed.

Poker_Fail

I've only played live cash once, and that was at the Cardiff SPT, made almost enough to cover my train so the whole trip was almost free

I watched for a little while and it was obvious straight away how fishy it was, there were only 2 competent people at the table and one of them had about 12 pints and started gambling like a maniac. Great fun and you'd be fine as long as you can afford a loss if you get unlucky.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Live Cash Poker:

I know live NL100 games that you online nl4 winners would murder. Most live players are utter tellboxes with next to no dicipline or understanding of equity or approach.  But what you comment in regard to multi way flops, resulting from 1table, play is true.  But it is equally true that live players do stack alot lighter. Dont get me wrong their are great live players.  But tI think we can get a feel for villains tendancies much quicker and steadfastly than online.  Its obv a much more situatonal format than online, where were just crunching numbers and looking for favourable spots. I never used to agree that online players have much better technical aptitude than live players.  But theres few things I've been wronger about.  But take an online player with 100,000's of hands under his belt and place him with 7 oppos who probaly play 200 hands a week and the advantage is just ridiculous.  Think am avging about 6500 dealt hands a day just now. But countering this is that most NL100/200 tables are high variance to begin with.  But then you have often multiple people playing a high variance game at a high variance table making it tricky.  Just have to accept your losing/break even sessions in the knowledge that your above average sessions are going to be ridic profitable.  I was playing @ Napoleans hull last night.  Pretty fluid table.  Lost every pot going to river as 9/1 fav.  But obv we have been value towning each street, pot becomes so bloated that when those thin beats come in, were commited.  But its pretty myeh. Live is the only format that I will play for stakes that I find worthwhile, for many and varied reasons.  Some of those issues solely relating to my high online tilt factor, which barely exhists live.  But I have been playing alot of zoom very profitably for the last few months and feeling my game moving up a few notches.  Mainly as am playing long sessions and making decisions on multiple tables 400bbs deep.  But its taken me out of my comfort zone and once again forced me to learn. I truly believe (and have stated for at least 18months) that a winning nl4 online player would crush live100.  They have an understanding of the game that is just so far removed from their opponents.  Its still a grind, in many of the same ways.  But you win at nl4 by picking your spots and valuetowning the inferior/gambly player.  Its far more similar than you'd think.  Weak hero calls and sigh calls are just far more frequent than hero folds. Those players that you instantly know will own you, keep away from.  And you will know them.  But just maintain the same mentality as you would online.  But be prepared to play significantly more situationally. I've only ever sat down in one venue where I truly felt uncomfortable.   There are plenty of live recs, as there are online.  A good way to improve your game is to play multiple forms of poker, but I think playing poker in different formats is equally important. Dont forget there are many prominent players who just will not play online, for perfectly valid reasons.  I find it truly shocking that people habitually play online, who have never played live.  Its an alien concept.  Anywho bud, pretty drunk so sense am rambling.  Just gone with the shotgun approach, but if there are any specifics you want me to look at inbox me and I'll reply as early as I can.  But am away until wed.
Posted by AMYBR

Great post.

Agree with much of this.
Moved to mainly online now myself but played 2/3 years regulary at DTD.
You're absolutley correct with a lot of your assumptions.

Live players HATE folding!
When you get the big hands, bet big, you'll normally still find a caller but if you 're making what you feel is a standard raise with your premiums don't be surprised when you get 4/5 callers and start to feel a little ill!

Good luck with it

Jac35

How do you go about saying you want to leave and cash in?

Just get up with a huge smile on your face and thanks the table for providing you with the funds for your new ipad!

Seriously, no problems just get up and say cheerio.
If you are winning big perhaps give a bit of warning that you will be leaving soon but in general people are coming and going all the time and i wouldn't worry about it.

AMYBR

Personally I always state my intention to play 2 more orbits if leaving early.  But in honesty am more often last at table sighing when people leave.

simonnatur

I'ld advise you to forget about bluffing, with the exception of c-betting if you have the initiative in a heads up pot. In a live game esp. <100 bb deep you'll often struggle to get an oppo to put down top or second pair.

Procedures for topping up vary, as in some games cash on the table is allowed and in others only chips are allowed. I find it easiest to buy chips at the outset for 2 or more buyins which then allows me to top up at the end of any hand if i need to.

In a casino you just need to stand up from the table at anytime to leave, though you might want to or be asked to exchange your small denomination chips for larger value chips with another player. 

In a home/private game it's obviously much better etiquette to give some warning  before you leave especially if you are winning or your departure is likely to cause the game to break.

simonnatur

Oops forgot, biggest mistake by newcomers to live cash is string betting ( google if you dont know) or throwing in a large value chip intended as a raise which will be taken as a call unless you have verbally announced a raise.

Cash regs love these mistakes as you have tipped them off that you have a big hand and also allowed them to flat call with any junk to try and outflop you.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Live Cash Poker:

Oops forgot, biggest mistake by newcomers to live cash is string betting ( google if you dont know) or throwing in a large value chip intended as a raise which will be taken as a call unless you have verbally announced a raise. Cash regs love these mistakes as you have tipped them off that you have a big hand and also allowed them to flat call with any junk to try and outflop you.
Posted by simonnatur

Well yeah I'm aware of that, that's the same in any live format, MTTs or whatever, but cheers for all the advice you've given.

AMYBR

Yeah while getting accustomed look at dealer and state your intention.

tbh I do this alot in live MTTs.  Just because we are often ignored my less experienced live players, who perceive your open to be larger than it is in reality (as most dealers will be lazy and wait until action goes to flop - or another bet goes in - to dish out returns on denominations) i.e blinds 150/300 stated bet 725, but all oppos see is 1k chip.

But as field thins I just try and keep excess of denominations.