In Response to Re: James hartigan.....are u serious? : How on earth has James Akenhead managed to get in your list of the top 6 live tournament players of all time? Please justify? Respect your opinion but don't understand that at all. Posted by daveydavey
Well the question was a bit ambigious, it asked both "the best" & "the best you have played against". And I did say I would like to re-consider my list after mulling it over for a day or so - it's a very wide question.
But when I finally make my choice, it will very probably include James. He IS very good, almost impossible to play against, he's in yer face non-stop, & is amazingly comfy down the streets. He began at Gutshot, many moons ago, & he was not special then - but he is now. IMO, of course.
I listed 3 or 4 players who all do an amazing thing - you should try it, it's incredibly hard.
In the early stages of a big Tournwey, with Blinds at 25-50 & when the world & his wife (& a few blokes on the next Table) all Call to see a flop, James - & Richard Gryko, & Camel - do this itsy-bitsy Raise to 125, or 150, knowing full well they will get 6 or 7 Callers. And they do it from EVERY Seat - including UTG.
You try doing that, meaning there is 750 or 900 in the middle PF, & now you have to outplay 5 ugly geezers who all have Position on you. Not easy, that.
I will review the List, but I think James will be quite exceptional in a few years, & he will probably stay in. Raymer might get added in, so might Lodden.
I think we can agree that Moneymaker, Gold, Arama & Co won't.
Non-famous players, as mentioned by Scotty? Plenty! Of every player I've ever seen, if I had to give my last £500 to, "bet the shop" to stay alive, it'd go to Tom McCready or Kim Costa. Because they will fight for every last chip. & their poker skillz are wider - MUCH wider - than almost anyone I know. It's not all about odds & gamble, guys like Kim & Tom know what you've had for Breakfast. They, metaphorically get up VERY early in the morning, & have a secret weapon - it's called intelligence, allied to Bankroll Management. No player with poor Bankroll Management will ever be on my list as "best".
Almost the "best" player I know has the worst BM of anyone I've ever met. (He's very well-known). He can spin $100 into $100,000 in a few days, & has done it scores of times. Then he spews the lot. Every time. Is that "good poker"?
In Response to Re: James hartigan.....are u serious? : Well the question was a bit ambigious, it asked both "the best" & "the best you have played against". And I did say I would like to re-consider my list after mulling it over for a day or so - it's a very wide question. But when I finally make my choice, it will very probably include James. He IS very good, almost impossible to play against, he's in yer face non-stop, & is amazingly comfy down the streets. He began at Gutshot, many moons ago, & he was not special then - but he is now. IMO, of course. I listed 3 or 4 players who all do an amazing thing - you should try it, it's incredibly hard. In the early stages of a big Tournwey, with Blinds at 25-50 & when the world & his wife (& a few blokes on the next Table) all Call to see a flop, James - & Richard Gryko, & Camel - do this itsy-bitsy Raise to 125, or 150, knowing full well they will get 6 or 7 Callers. And they do it from EVERY Seat - including UTG. You try doing that, meaning there is 750 or 900 in the middle PF, & now you have to outplay 5 ugly geezers who all have Position on you. Not easy, that. I will review the List, but I think James will be quite exceptional in a few years, & he will probably stay in. Raymer might get added in, so might Lodden. I think we can agree that Moneymaker, Gold, Arama & Co won't. Non-famous players, as mentioned by Scotty? Plenty! Of every player I've ever seen, if I had to give my last £500 to, "bet the shop" to stay alive, it'd go to Tom McCready or Kim Costa. Because they will fight for every last chip. & their poker skillz are wider - MUCH wider - than almost anyone I know. It's not all about odds & gamble, guys like Kim & Tom know what you've had for Breakfast. They, metaphorically get up VERY early in the morning, & have a secret weapon - it's called intelligence, allied to Bankroll Management. No player with poor Bankroll Management will ever be on my list as "best". Almost the "best" player I know has the worst BM of anyone I've ever met. (He's very well-known). He can spin $100 into $100,000 in a few days, & has done it scores of times. Then he spews the lot. Every time. Is that "good poker"? Posted by Tikay10
On the 1st leg of last years Sky Tour at DTD, I was on his table. We were HU in a hand and he bet out about half the pot, I called on the Nut flush draw. I hit the Nut flush, he bets about half pot again I reraise he dwells up and folds.. he shows QUEEN HIGH FLUSH ... How do you fold that?? red-dog FTW
Fair enough tikay, nursing a hangover ad must have skimmed the "you've played with" bit. Being a member of the 2+2 forums I expect to be flamed for this, but surely Hellmuth is in tournament top 5? Cunningham? Posted by daveydavey
What about Overton? He will be up with the very best in a few years ;-)
Well TK good bankroll management or not ...in my opinion there are only three players who I would listen to if able , the late greats, "Chip Reese' 'Stu Unger' and the fabulous Doyle Brunson .. the rest aren't even in the 3rd division to these guys and as for 'Gold' if i never heard his voice again it would be a blessing !! However Mr Orford (legend) i could listen to all day, and I know he's a much better player than you guys make him out to be !! (2006 Miami Florida !! I'll say no more) )
Fair enough tikay, nursing a hangover ad must have skimmed the "you've played with" bit. Being a member of the 2+2 forums I expect to be flamed for this, but surely Hellmuth is in tournament top 5? Cunningham? Posted by daveydavey
Just jumped out of bed to go and fetch my laptop to make this post, never use the forum.....shows how strongly i feel. Im watching the repeat of the primo...is this bloke serious with what hes saying? just seen 59,00 in the pot on an AJJJ x board....n the fella bets 3k.........thats 20/1 on a call......the bloke called with a king n lost to an ace, how on earth can that be a bad call, hes winning more than once every 20 times. this fella commentating is so card orientated its unreal. has he ever done anything in the game? shudnt he be a presenter rather than an expert? infuriated me so much ive got out of bed to get mi laptop to have a moan at him. so annoying as if hes folding k high there . rant over, JJ Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Well, I see your point about that particular example Mr. Dohhhh but, if I may offer my two penneth here, I think James Hartigan ticks all the right boxes. He's smart, funny, enthusiastic about the game and about Sky Poker and is extremely skilled at making complicated things sound simple.
4 hours of live tv without stopping is a long old stint and mistakes often creep in- if indeed what James advocated was a 'mistake'.
Remember of course when it comes to strategy one man's meat is another man's poison. Tikay and Ed, both well respected and excellent poker commentators take completely opposite stances on the concept of min-raises.
As for achievements in the game- well, to name just one example, whatever has John Motson done in the world of football to justify him being given commentary duties on every big match?
In Response to Re: James hartigan.....are u serious? : OMG....... Does EVERY poker cliche have to spread to EVERY Forum? [ ] What a wonderful thing fashion is. Posted by Tikay10
[x] comments on fashion [x] wears burgendy jacket [x] forum cliche's [x] bout tree fiddy
Just jumped out of bed to go and fetch my laptop to make this post, never use the forum.....shows how strongly i feel. Im watching the repeat of the primo...is this bloke serious with what hes saying? just seen 59,00 in the pot on an AJJJ x board....n the fella bets 3k.........thats 20/1 on a call......the bloke called with a king n lost to an ace, how on earth can that be a bad call, hes winning more than once every 20 times. this fella commentating is so card orientated its unreal. has he ever done anything in the game? shudnt he be a presenter rather than an expert? infuriated me so much ive got out of bed to get mi laptop to have a moan at him. so annoying as if hes folding k high there . rant over, JJ Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Blimey - my very own dedicated thread on the Sky Poker forum!
Apologies for the delay in responding, but I've had a busy couple of days. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not in Portugal, but have been working on the EPT TV shows with Daniel Negreanu. I'll be on PTP duties tomorrow night. Maybe, for once, I'll be able to achieve something in the game...
Now, let's deal with JJ's "constructive criticism."
Here's the point I was trying to make about the player's call on the river with just king-high (and I apologise if I didn't articulate this clearly on-air, but Tikay will no doubt confirm that in a live broadcast you're always struggling to squeeze complex thoughts into short sentences): it's very easy to become obsessed with "pot odds" and "getting the right price." That's fine in a cash game where you can reload as many times as you want, but, in a shallow-stack tournament, when each bet represents a sizeable chunk of your stack, you can't keep making speculative calls!
Now, in the example you quoted, JIMBOB had more than 100,000 in chips and was only being asked to invest 3,000 to keep his opponent honest. So, yes, it's probably worth the call - just for information purposes, if nothing else. Although, I maintain the likelihood of the guy min-betting with worse than king-high is closer to 100/1 than 20/1 :-)
I see so many players on Sky Poker go from being a big stack to a short stack - not by losing a massive pot, but by chasing draws, defending blinds, making "hero" calls on the river, etc. Little by little, they lose the lot. And it's this "death by a thousand cuts" principle I was attempting to address on Sunday's Primo. Granted, I may have chosen the wrong hand to illustrate it, so I apologise, JJ. Is that sufficient, or would you like to see me dragged by horses across hot coals and then flogged with a bicycle chain? I'm sure Tikay would be more than happy to oblige...
By the way, did I really make you jump out of bed? It's actually quite flattering to learn I can have that effect on someone...
In Response to James hartigan.....are u serious? : Blimey - my very own dedicated thread on the Sky Poker forum! Apologies for the delay in responding, but I've had a busy couple of days. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not in Portugal, but have been working on the EPT TV shows with Daniel Negreanu. I'll be on PTP duties tomorrow night. Maybe, for once, I'll be able to achieve something in the game... Now, let's deal with JJ's "constructive criticism." Here's the point I was trying to make about the player's call on the river with just king-high (and I apologise if I didn't articulate this clearly on-air, but Tikay will no doubt confirm that in a live broadcast you're always struggling to squeeze complex thoughts into short sentences): it's very easy to become obsessed with "pot odds" and "getting the right price." That's fine in a cash game where you can reload as many times as you want, but, in a shallow-stack tournament, when each bet represents a sizeable chunk of your stack, you can't keep making speculative calls! Now, in the example you quoted, JIMBOB had more than 100,000 in chips and was only being asked to invest 3,000 to keep his opponent honest. So, yes, it's probably worth the call - just for information purposes, if nothing else. Although, I maintain the likelihood of the guy min-betting with worse than king-high is closer to 100/1 than 20/1 :-) I see so many players on Sky Poker go from being a big stack to a short stack - not by losing a massive pot, but by chasing draws, defending blinds, making "hero" calls on the river, etc. Little by little, they lose the lot. And it's this "death by a thousand cuts" principle I was attempting to address on Sunday's Primo. Granted, I may have chosen the wrong hand to illustrate it, so I apologise, JJ. Is that sufficient, or would you like to see me dragged by horses across hot coals and then flogged with a bicycle chain? I'm sure Tikay would be more than happy to oblige... By the way, did I really make you jump out of bed? It's actually quite flattering to learn I can have that effect on someone... Posted by J-Hartigan
Top quality response there sir!! on the subject of making the guy jump out of bed ..... you obviously must be married to make a statement like that lol
Comments
But when I finally make my choice, it will very probably include James. He IS very good, almost impossible to play against, he's in yer face non-stop, & is amazingly comfy down the streets. He began at Gutshot, many moons ago, & he was not special then - but he is now. IMO, of course.
I listed 3 or 4 players who all do an amazing thing - you should try it, it's incredibly hard.
In the early stages of a big Tournwey, with Blinds at 25-50 & when the world & his wife (& a few blokes on the next Table) all Call to see a flop, James - & Richard Gryko, & Camel - do this itsy-bitsy Raise to 125, or 150, knowing full well they will get 6 or 7 Callers. And they do it from EVERY Seat - including UTG.
You try doing that, meaning there is 750 or 900 in the middle PF, & now you have to outplay 5 ugly geezers who all have Position on you. Not easy, that.
I will review the List, but I think James will be quite exceptional in a few years, & he will probably stay in. Raymer might get added in, so might Lodden.
I think we can agree that Moneymaker, Gold, Arama & Co won't.
Non-famous players, as mentioned by Scotty? Plenty! Of every player I've ever seen, if I had to give my last £500 to, "bet the shop" to stay alive, it'd go to Tom McCready or Kim Costa. Because they will fight for every last chip. & their poker skillz are wider - MUCH wider - than almost anyone I know. It's not all about odds & gamble, guys like Kim & Tom know what you've had for Breakfast. They, metaphorically get up VERY early in the morning, & have a secret weapon - it's called intelligence, allied to Bankroll Management. No player with poor Bankroll Management will ever be on my list as "best".
Almost the "best" player I know has the worst BM of anyone I've ever met. (He's very well-known). He can spin $100 into $100,000 in a few days, & has done it scores of times. Then he spews the lot. Every time. Is that "good poker"?
Does EVERY poker cliche have to spread to EVERY Forum?
[ ] What a wonderful thing fashion is.
Being a member of the 2+2 forums I expect to be flamed for this, but surely Hellmuth is in tournament top 5? Cunningham?
However Mr Orford (legend) i could listen to all day, and I know he's a much better player than you guys make him out to be !! (2006 Miami Florida !! I'll say no more)
I dont know if you aware, but tikay is teetotal
4 hours of live tv without stopping is a long old stint and mistakes often creep in- if indeed what James advocated was a 'mistake'.
Remember of course when it comes to strategy one man's meat is another man's poison. Tikay and Ed, both well respected and excellent poker commentators take completely opposite stances on the concept of min-raises.
As for achievements in the game- well, to name just one example, whatever has John Motson done in the world of football to justify him being given commentary duties on every big match?
[x] wears burgendy jacket
[x] forum cliche's
[x] bout tree fiddy
Nice response Mr A.
But you don't have ONE dedicated thread - you have TWO.
Think the other one is called "so embarrassing - Rant continued" or somesuch.
I think it's fallen onto Page two now. We all put the boot in, of course.....;)
To be fair though, you'd make me jump out my bed. If you got into it...
See you on the tables tomorrow evening.
Did you apply?
Did you get the job?
Even Colin Murray lost out!! Now there's knowledge!