Freeroll rebuys

GELDY

Just played a freeroll for the first time for ages. Saw that many people did a rebuy or addon - but nothing increased in the prize pool. How does this actually work? Do not rebuys add to the pot like in other tournies, or do they only add to it once the gntee is covered, or is the prize structure always fixed and no matter how many rebuys Sky keeps the lot?

Kiwini4u

Its the same as any guarantee game, the prize pool doesn't increase until the guarantee is met. So for a £100 guarantee freeroll there would have to be a minimum of 200 rebuys or addons before the prize pool increases, which lets be honest, is highly unlikely to ever happen so the prize pool will never increase above £100.

Steve

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

Its the same as any guarantee game, the prize pool doesn't increase until the guarantee is met. So for a £100 guarantee freeroll there would have to be a minimum of 200 rebuys or addons before the prize pool increases, which lets be honest, is highly unlikely to ever happen so the prize pool will never increase above £100. Steve
Posted by Kiwini4u

Yes, i have always wondered how this works.. So it's effectively a 50p rebuy and not a freeroll at all

But you can call it a freeroll because rebuys are optional...  used to be uncomfortable about this, but i suppose it's fair enough!

billyboots

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

Its the same as any guarantee game, the prize pool doesn't increase until the guarantee is met. So for a £100 guarantee freeroll there would have to be a minimum of 200 rebuys or addons before the prize pool increases, which lets be honest, is highly unlikely to ever happen so the prize pool will never increase above £100. Steve
Posted by Kiwini4u

.........I don't think this is correct, i always understood that any money collected from fr rebuy's and add-on's went to the sky poker coffers for using to give out additional freebies etc etc.
There was a set amount of money allocated for such thing's as fr's and prizes and any extra money collected would be recycled in additional giveaways etc.......tikay covered this topic a long time ago when the same subject cropped up and i believe that was roughly the answer he gave, my apologies if i have misunderstood and in turn have misinformed.   

aussie09

any guarantee is applied after everything else has been completed.  if after add-ons, rebuys, buy-ins, late registrations etc., the total funds are less than the guarantee then the balance will be made up by skypoker.

it's not right to say going into sky's coffers, it is the opposite, it is reducing a loss.
 


 

rancid

who care it's free to enter, you option to re or add - so that money is put towards the GTD amount - that's how it always works for GTD isn't it

Mohican

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

any guarantee is applied after everything else has been completed.  if after add-ons, rebuys, buy-ins, late registrations etc., the total funds are less that the guarantee then the balance will be made up by skypoker. it's not right to say going into sky's coffers, it is the opposite, it is reducing a loss.  
Posted by aussie09

^^^this +1

billyboots

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

any guarantee is applied after everything else has been completed.  if after add-ons, rebuys, buy-ins, late registrations etc., the total funds are less that the guarantee then the balance will be made up by skypoker. it's not right to say going into sky's coffers, it is the opposite, it is reducing a loss.  
Posted by aussie09

i did also say this, "There was a set amount of money allocated for such thing's as fr's and prizes and any extra money collected would be recycled in additional giveaways etc.

I wasn't implicating that they kept it for themselves!

GELDY

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

it's not right to say going into sky's coffers, it is the opposite, it is reducing a loss.  
Posted by aussie09

I meant with respect to that tournie. I do think one might adjust one's strategy for playing depending on how rebuys/addons adjust the final prize pool. i.e in a dym there would be no point paying for an add-on if it didn't increase the prize pool, even if mega short-stacked, whereas if it built the pool you might like to spin it, particularly if others were doing so as well (bit contrived as an example I know but just a hypothetical example).

But very hypothetical for me at the mo as I am playing off a 0 BR so my only choices are freerolls with no rebuy/add-on or wait for c4p.

aussie09

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys : I meant with respect to that tournie. I do think one might adjust one's strategy for playing depending on how rebuys/addons adjust the final prize pool. i.e in a dym there would be no point paying for an add-on if it didn't increase the prize pool, even if mega short-stacked, whereas if it built the pool you might like to spin it, particularly if others were doing so as well (bit contrived as an example I know but just a hypothetical example). But very hypothetical for me at the mo as I am playing off a 0 BR so my only choices are freerolls with no rebuy/add-on or wait for c4p.
Posted by GELDY

yes, i see that too.  and probably like you in your example, i wouldn't like people to make decisions on rebuys etc when they misunderstand how the guarantee works.


 

billyboots

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys : I meant with respect to that tournie. I do think one might adjust one's strategy for playing depending on how rebuys/addons adjust the final prize pool. i.e in a dym there would be no point paying for an add-on if it didn't increase the prize pool, even if mega short-stacked, whereas if it built the pool you might like to spin it, particularly if others were doing so as well (bit contrived as an example I know but just a hypothetical example). But very hypothetical for me at the mo as I am playing off a 0 BR so my only choices are freerolls with no rebuy/add-on or wait for c4p.
Posted by GELDY

Hi geldy........wrt to your op, "or is the prize structure always fixed and no matter how many rebuys Sky keeps the lot? ".......in these fr's, as i always understood it from what tikay had posted a long time ago, the prize structure is gtd and and will not alter so therefore, any monies collected from rebuys and add-ons will not alter the payout for that given tournament but they will instead use that money to recycle it back in other ways to give additional prizes etc at a later date.......eg; if they budget 100k in fr's for any given year, than any money that is collected via buy-ins and add-on's will not go to paying for that budget but instead will go towards giving us more in fr's etc.....ie; that original 100k is already written off /bugeted......hope this is correct as i understand.....tc and gl with increasing your br.  

Tikay10

Gentlemen,

Several people have correctly Posted the correct situation, but I'll do so again.

If a Freeroll Rebuy is Guaranteed at £100, it does not matter if only, say, £10 is collected from rebuys, the £100 still remains Guaranteed.
 
If £50 is collected via rebuys, the Guarantee is still £100.
 
If £75 is collected in Rebuys, the £100 is still Guaranteed.

If £100 is collected in Rebuys, the £100 is still Guaranteed.

However...................

If £125 is collected in Rebuys, THEN, & then only, the prize pool is increased by, I would assume, £25, to £125.

I believe that is the case, though not 100% sure, I'll check with the office tomorrow.

Tikay10

So......

If NOBODY rebuys, then Sky Poker have paid for a £100 Freeroll.

If £100 worth of rebuys are collected, then the "Freeroll" has financed itself, & Sky Poker have not given any money away.

In the latter case, it means that there is an additional £100 available in the Sky Poker Annual Freeroll (& Promotional) Budget, which addresses the point that Billyboots made in his last Post.

I don't have to hand the amount that Sky Poker budget for Freerolls & Promos every year, but if money can be saved as in the quoted example - a Freeroll Rebuy - then it just means it gets re-allocated for further Freerolls or Promos.

The annual promotional spend is agreed in advance, & there is no benefit to the business in not spending it. It is spent for a reason - to help drive further business, so there is no benefit in trying to "save it", but it is very important that it is spent wisely.

Every Freeroll on Sky Poker exists for a reason.

Businesses do not give away money without good reason.

Tesco's sometimes do BOGOF, or sell baked beans at below cost, but that is not because thery are nice people - they are trying to drive business, to get customers to go into their local shop. Once the customers are in the shop, they might spend money on other things that they see whilst there, or tell their friends what a nice shop it is. 

    

oynutter

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

So...... If NOBODY rebuys, then Sky Poker have paid for a £100 Freeroll. If £100 worth of rebuys are collected, then the "Freeroll" has financed itself, & Sky Poker have not given any money away. In the latter case, it means that there is an additional £100 available in the Sky Poker Annual Freeroll (& Promotional) Budget, which addresses the point that Billyboots made in his last Post. I don't have to hand the amount that Sky Poker budget for Freerolls & Promos every year, but if money can be saved as in the quoted example - a Freeroll Rebuy - then it just means it gets re-allocated for further Freerolls or Promos. The annual promotional spend is agreed in advance, & there is no benefit to the business in not spending it. It is spent for a reason - to help drive further business, so there is no benefit in trying to "save it", but it is very important that it is spent wisely. Every Freeroll on Sky Poker exists for a reason. Businesses do not give away money without good reason. Tesco's sometimes do BOGOF, or sell baked beans at below cost, but that is not because thery are nice people - they are trying to drive business, to get customers to go into their local shop. Once the customers are in the shop, they might spend money on other things that they see whilst there, or tell their friends what a nice shop it is.      
Posted by Tikay10

Well said Tikay, It certainly is not because they are nice people-- I actually found out that they sell cheap baked beans because they advertise with posters on the wall next to the public toilets!

billyboots

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys : Well said Tikay, It certainly is not because they are nice people-- I actually found out that they sell cheap baked beans because they advertise with posters on the wall next to the public toilets!
Posted by oynutter

......and they miss a trick by not putting them on the shelf above the toilet rolls........

GELDY

Thanks Tikay - crystal clear - but can you use less words next time please.

I'm going to feel too guilty to post any questions if I fear you will spend the whole of your morning answering them. And no, I don't believe you can type that fast, although I won't be surprised to hear you can type faster than me.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

Thanks Tikay - crystal clear - but can you use less words next time please. I'm going to feel too guilty to post any questions if I fear you will spend the whole of your morning answering them. And no, I don't believe you can type that fast, although I won't be surprised to hear you can type faster than me.
Posted by GELDY

Never worry about asking me those sort of questions Geldy, if I have the time, I will reply to them.

As it happens, I am in the office all day today, as I'm doing the Show tonight, added to which I had to leave my house - 10 minutes from the Studio - and book into a local Hotel last night, to ensure I could get in today. The road past my home in Hampton Court is closed to traffic from 4am until 6pm today, due to the Olympic Cycle Race, so I'm sort of stuck here all day. I'm going to be pretty tired by the time tonight's Show finishes at midnight, too!

Type fast? As anyone who has witnessed my typing knows, I'm a one-finger typist, lol. But it makes sense to try & answer questions clearly, otherwise people misinterpret it, & I then have to do it again.

Not having the best of days actually - I've just realised that tonight's Presenter is Mr Orford, & there is no guest tonight. How bad do I run?   

4EVERGREEN

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys : Never worry about asking me those sort of questions Geldy, if I have the time, I will reply to them. As it happens, I am in the office all day today, as I'm doing the Show tonight, added to which I had to leave my house - 10 minutes from the Studio - and book into a local Hotel last night, to ensure I could get in today. The road past my home in Hampton Court is closed to traffic from 4am until 6pm today, due to the Olympic Cycle Race, so I'm sort of stuck here all day. I'm going to be pretty tired by the time tonight's Show finishes at midnight, too! Type fast? As anyone who has witnessed my typing knows, I'm a one-finger typist, lol. But it makes sense to try & answer questions clearly, otherwise people misinterpret it, & I then have to do it again. Not having the best of days actually - I've just realised that tonight's Presenter is Mr Orford, & there is no guest tonight. How bad do I run?    
Posted by Tikay10

How bad do you run? I would guess Mr Orford is asking himself the same question.

Tikay10

Mr Orford thinks EXACTLY that.

He is sat next to me right now, writing his "script" for tonight. Yup, hard to believe his stuff is scripted, I thought he made it up as he went along. And yes, before you say it, I do.  

4EVERGREEN

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

Mr Orford thinks EXACTLY that. He is sat next to me right now, writing his "script" for tonight. Yup, hard to believe his stuff is scripted, I thought he made it up as he went along. And yes, before you say it, I do.  
Posted by Tikay10

Vey much looking forward to the show with my two favourite presenters. Have a good one, guys.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys:

In Response to Re: Freeroll rebuys : Vey much looking forward to the show with my two favourite presenters. Have a good one, guys.
Posted by 4EVERGREEN

Orford is a "favourite"?

PS - Thank you!