what should i do???

waller02

I had only just sat at the table, it is a DTD game.

I have no notes on penguin but know he is a very good player.

Am I beat or could he be trying to push me off my hand thinking I may have AQ/AK???

Easy shove or fold?

SoLack	Small blind		800.00	800.00	16398.75
penguin7	Big blind		1600.00	2400.00	55398.75
	Your hole cards	A A
waller02	Raise		3200.00	5600.00	31967.50
Boxster	Fold
Tallylove	Fold
SoLack	Fold
penguin7	Call		1600.00	7200.00	53798.75
Flop
		2 7 6
penguin7	Check
waller02	Bet		4800.00	12000.00	27167.50
penguin7	Raise		11200.00	23200.00	42598.75
waller02	?

Wilhelm

In Response to what should i do???:

I had only just sat at the table, it is a DTD game. I have no notes on penguin but know he is a very good player. Am I beat or could he be trying to push me off my hand thinking I may have AQ/AK??? Easy shove or fold? SoLack Small blind   800.00 800.00 16398.75 penguin7 Big blind   1600.00 2400.00 55398.75   Your hole cards A A       waller02 Raise   3200.00 5600.00 31967.50 Boxster Fold         Tallylove Fold         SoLack Fold         penguin7 Call   1600.00 7200.00 53798.75 Flop     2 7 6       penguin7 Check         waller02 Bet   4800.00 12000.00 27167.50 penguin7 Raise   11200.00 23200.00 42598.75 waller02 ? 
Posted by waller02

If he flipped over pocket 7s I'd still shove.

DOHHHHHHH

Don't shove or fold imo

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: what should i do???:

Don't shove or fold imo
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

This is obviously what I meant tbf.

waller02

In Response to Re: what should i do???:

Don't shove or fold imo
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

what u mean? call and look to get it in on the turn?

DOHHHHHHH

That's what I'd do yes, try and keep his range as wide as poss. If he has a set he's busting us either way.

Can check back some turns if he slows down too and call/shove any river for 2/3 of the pot. 

waller02

I obv ran into a set or i wouldnt have posted.....just wanted to see if i was right not to fold?

I did just shove and he had 66

yb

call and call any turn

rancid

was going to say he always got a set here but then it would just seem like a load of BS :)_

but I'd still flat the raise and go broke "!

grantorino

Don't fold AA 20bb deep ever

Call, dont fold on turn or river

The_Don90

Yeap i gota agree with most said in this thread. Dohhhh somes the reasons up perfectly. 

POKERTREV

I would be more concerned about your Min-Raise Pre-flop rather than the outcome of the rest of the hand.

Penquin is already in the pot for 1600 chips on the BB, so he's never folding to a min raise pre-flop. Bet something like 6.4k - 7.4 pre-flop and I think penquin is good enough to fold his pocket 6's and we take down an uncontested pot of 2.4K.

OK - Its almost a 3rd of our stack, but surely we would be looking to get them all in to any caller anyway right?

I know we want players in the pot but at this stage with 20BB slow playing pocket Aces is not my preferred option and if we let them in too cheaply, we have to accept that some of the time we are goin to get outdrawn.

Make them pay to see the flop, that way will be in much better shape when they don't flop that set.

A bigger bet pre-flop and we are only likely to be called by hands like 1010 - JJ, QQ, AK etc and if that had been the case, then this flop would have been massive for us and the oppo would find it very hard to fold down the streets or to any shove on the flop and we more than likely double up.

liamboi11

think pre flop is fine imo

just flat the raise on the flop like others said you are goin broke anywayz but allows him 2 continue with smaller pairs that you have beat and bluffs.

but really just ul he flopped set

yb

In Response to Re: what should i do???:

I would be more concerned about your Min-Raise Pre-flop rather than the outcome of the rest of the hand. Penquin is already in the pot for 1600 chips on the BB, so he's never folding to a min raise pre-flop. Bet something like 6.4k - 7.4 pre-flop and I think penquin is good enough to fold his pocket 6's and we take down an uncontested pot of 2.4K. OK - Its almost a 3rd of our stack, but surely we would be looking to get them all in to any caller anyway right? I know we want players in the pot but at this stage with 20BB slow playing pocket Aces is not my preferred option and if we let them in too cheaply, we have to accept that some of the time we are goin to get outdrawn. Make them pay to see the flop, that way will be in much better shape when they don't flop that set. A bigger bet pre-flop and we are only likely to be called by hands like 1010 - JJ, QQ, AK etc and if that had been the case, then this flop would have been massive for us and the oppo would find it very hard to fold down the streets or to any shove on the flop and we more than likely double up.
Posted by POKERTREV

lol why do you want to just take down the blinds with AA? 4x raising from a 20bb stack is terrible.

by minraising we get to make our bluffs cheaper when we don't have AA, and also if the blinds don't want to fold it means we get to play more hands in position against them when they're often going to have marginal holdings.

mj8bs

agreed at these blind levels, ave stack, the min raise is fine. I dont think Im folding on most flops. 

profman15

Hi Waller

How about a bigger bet pre-flop as then maybe you can narrow his calling range to TT+, AJ+ etc, i feel, as he knows you have a very strong hand. Consequently you may then be able to dismiss this flop. As it is the set is there probably but the min raise allows him to involve himself. Mind, i know how you feel a i put up two posts with KK hands in the last 10 days and for the same reason as you. That check raise really is a killer, isn't it/ Mine were early T situations so slightly different but similar in some ways.

mj8bs

Sorry but if I see 66 at the late stage of a tourny (which is what im going to assume this is here), youre gonna have to make a pretty mega play for me to drop them easily. 66 when the blinds/ave stack is so high i look at like 10,10. Im calling with 22. Put simply Id rather see 22 than AK...

disclaimer- this is prob why im such a losing MTT player lol

profman15

In Response to Re: what should i do???:

Sorry but if I see 66 at the late stage of a tourny (which is what im going to assume this is here), youre gonna have to make a pretty mega play for me to drop them easily. 66 when the blinds/ave stack is so high i look at like 10,10. Im calling with 22. Put simply Id rather see 22 than AK... disclaimer- this is prob why im such a losing MTT player lol
Posted by mj8bs

Hi mj...

Is this so late and if it is then why not shove then...would you have called with 66. I wouldn't. I just think a min raise allowed people to see a flop and make a play...that's all. However, that's the nature of the game isn't it. If we've got to the stage of Ai's then do it but i don't think where here yet imo.
A bigger bet may have got a player trying to steal with an AI that Waller would have called. a min raise IMO give too many the opportunity to see a flop especially the bb. Cheers anyway...

mj8bs

Hi Profman, its not really really late so yes we're not at the shoving stage yet, but we're not trying to take down the blinds uncontested here. Surely we want to price it for one caller who is gonna be behind and hope that the odds play out and we win a nice pot. Im sure 66 calls any reasonable sized raise. If not then what are we all waiting for? AA-1010? I know theres a few camps out there on this subject but Id rather see that 66 than AK regardless of the hand im up against. Im not sure Penguin folds to a 3x raise here when he has a nice playable 35BB stack

yb

In Response to Re: what should i do???:

Hi Profman, its not really really late so yes we're not at the shoving stage yet, but we're not trying to take down the blinds uncontested here. Surely we want to price it for one caller who is gonna be behind and hope that the odds play out and we win a nice pot. Im sure 66 calls any reasonable sized raise. If not then what are we all waiting for? AA-1010? I know theres a few camps out there on this subject but Id rather see that 66 than AK regardless of the hand im up against. Im not sure Penguin folds to a 3x raise here when he has a nice playable 35BB stack
Posted by mj8bs

Getting stacks aipf with AK is so much better than with low pocket pairs at this stage of the tourny and it's not even close, just compare their respective equities against any calling/shoving range.

waller02

In Response to Re: what should i do???:

I would be more concerned about your Min-Raise Pre-flop rather than the outcome of the rest of the hand. Penquin is already in the pot for 1600 chips on the BB, so he's never folding to a min raise pre-flop. Bet something like 6.4k - 7.4 pre-flop and I think penquin is good enough to fold his pocket 6's and we take down an uncontested pot of 2.4K. OK - Its almost a 3rd of our stack, but surely we would be looking to get them all in to any caller anyway right? I know we want players in the pot but at this stage with 20BB slow playing pocket Aces is not my preferred option and if we let them in too cheaply, we have to accept that some of the time we are goin to get outdrawn. Make them pay to see the flop, that way will be in much better shape when they don't flop that set. A bigger bet pre-flop and we are only likely to be called by hands like 1010 - JJ, QQ, AK etc and if that had been the case, then this flop would have been massive for us and the oppo would find it very hard to fold down the streets or to any shove on the flop and we more than likely double up.
Posted by POKERTREV

I have to disagree here trev, this late on min raising is pretty standard and certainly not slow playing. You say raise to 6.4-7.4k to try and take down 2.4k in an uncontested pot, why would I want to do that? I was only concerned about how to react to the raise on the flop....and if I should have considered folding etc.