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C-bet this flop or take a free card?

Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
edited August 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Am I ok here to just take a free card or should I be c-betting? Bit of a risky flop for the type of hands people like to call with at this level. Turn for value, I'm happy with, then I think I should have bet the river, maybe bet/fold, but definitely bet.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
dabasser Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £3.49
lesley64 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £2.51
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • J
     
Lambert180 Raise  £0.20 £0.26 £12.51
Koteczek Fold     
dabasser Fold     
lesley64 Call  £0.16 £0.42 £2.35
Flop
   
  • 5
  • 4
  • 6
     
lesley64 Check     
Lambert180 Check     
Turn
   
  • J
     
lesley64 Check     
Lambert180 Bet  £0.42 £0.84 £12.09
lesley64 Call  £0.42 £1.26 £1.93
River
   
  • 4
     
lesley64 Check     
Lambert180 Check     
lesley64 Show
  • 3
  • Q
   
Lambert180 Show
  • A
  • J
   
Lambert180 Win Two Pairs, Jacks and 4s £1.16  £13.25
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2012
    Don't hate checking, but I'd bet as you can rep paint cards on turn and get value from draws

    Bet river
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2012
    Yeah I have no idea why I didn't bet the river in game. When I look at it now, it's an obvious bet.

    Do you think it's a bet/call or a bet/fold though? Obviously he doesn't have much more than pot left, so if I make it 70p, the odds seem too good to ever fold, but surely I should be thinking about his possible reaction before I make my bet. Is there any merit to just jamming the river with his stack size?
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  • walesboywalesboy Member Posts: 993
    edited August 2012
    c bet flop maybe 3/4
    turn would practically put him allin then
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2012
    check or bet is fine
    b/f river. depends on size of raise tho
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2012
    My problem with the last 2 posts though are this...

    It's all very good saying c-bet 3/4 pot and then you can practically put him all in on the turn once you've seen I hit the J on the turn.

    But imagine you don't know what the turn is, what if it's a 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,T,Q,K, or 3rd spade? I know I have very little FE against 90% of villians at this level, and only move on turn would be check it down and fold to any bet, or shove the turn which I don't like doing with A-high when people won't fold random 2nd prs etc.

    So assuming we don't know I'm gonna hit the turn, what do we do, and if I bet 3/4 pot, what do I do on the turn if it misses me?
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2012
    You cant say you have no fold equity then not vbet river

    I never played 4nl, so no sure what they fold, but in general I would cbet and barrell paint turns. Checking sounds ok too , though it sucks when they lead blank turn are you calling or folding then?
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2012
    didn't even look at villains stack. I probz bc. Might just put him all in. 
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  • samboram45samboram45 Member Posts: 232
    edited August 2012
    why the 5x pre? would bet river dont think checking is terrible though
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2012
    @sam - because it's 4NL where people call super wide, so if I'm raising a hand, I'm raising 5x

    I wish people would stop saying bet the river lol. I have no idea why I didn't bet the river (I did say this earlier in the thread), looking at it, it's a spot where I would 100% bet the river so dunno what I was doing/thinking.
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  • samboram45samboram45 Member Posts: 232
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: C-bet this flop or take a free card?:
    @sam - because it's 4NL where people call super wide, so if I'm raising a hand, I'm raising 5x I wish people would stop saying bet the river lol. I have no idea why I didn't bet the river (I did say this earlier in the thread), looking at it, it's a spot where I would 100% bet the river so dunno what I was doing/thinking.
    Posted by Lambert180
    i dont think checking river is actually ttht bad imo
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2012
    c bet
    bet turn
    bet river
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  • walesboywalesboy Member Posts: 993
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: C-bet this flop or take a free card?:
    My problem with the last 2 posts though are this... It's all very good saying c-bet 3/4 pot and then you can practically put him all in on the turn once you've seen I hit the J on the turn. But imagine you don't know what the turn is, what if it's a 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,T,Q,K, or 3rd spade? I know I have very little FE against 90% of villians at this level, and only move on turn would be check it down and fold to any bet, or shove the turn which I don't like doing with A-high when people won't fold random 2nd prs etc. So assuming we don't know I'm gonna hit the turn, what do we do, and if I bet 3/4 pot, what do I do on the turn if it misses me?
    Posted by Lambert180
    i c bet because a fair proportion of the time they fold in my experience. i know, folding at nl4!
    even if i don't hit i may bet the turn depending on the player-some don't like putting their stack in
    if i don't hit i may check it down if i can get a free card
    c betting is good practice i have found, players then expect it and if you have it or have a hand before hand you can get more value
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited August 2012
    bet da riva we has two purrssss

    checking flop is fine sometimes if you don't think he'll fold 22 etc
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited August 2012
    Never c-betting flops like this. You have no value and no equity. With a c-bet you are looking to either fold out hands or inflate the pot for when you hit your gin card.

    It's very unlikely the villian will fold on this flop. Most likely peel with a draw or over cards at this level. You might get check-raised by a draw too and then you have to fold. It's also pretty unlikely that you will hit an ace or a jack and even if you do you can't guarentee a win.

    Turn bet is just the right size. Bet-call river too. You will almost never get raised on this river the way the hand was played out though
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