In Response to Re: Top of the Posts! : This isn't really the right thread to be posting this but since you're new we'll let you off. Nearly everyone considers themselves to be a decent player. Only a minority are break even or better. I don't know how good you are but if your results say you're not a winning player, then you're not a winning player. If your results say you are a winning player then be happy because it's really tough to make money from this game in the long run. This is an important concept to understand in terms of variance. Across a sample of only a few hundred games, you're only really getting a very rough idea of how good a player you are. Most people will tell you that you need to have a sample of several thousand before you can draw any reasonably solid conclusions. Talking about 6 games you've played recently demonstrates that you're not really understanding variance as well as you think. Even in these six you've won half which is not to be considered, by any standard, as run-bad. If you're playing DYM's you might need to think about the particular strategies of that variant of the game. It has significant differences from MTT's, STT's or cash poker. If you get your chips in with the best hand "virtually all the time" then you are definitely not playing well. You should find that you get your chips in bad a significant proportion of the time i) by playing aggressively at certain times with draws, ii) because of your position or iii) because of your pot odds (although ICM makes this less important in DYM's). If you're not doing that enough, you will struggle to win in the long term. Finally; lots of people post this type of thing on here when they're not winning. Frequently their attitude is that they're not winning and therefore the games are rigged. There's another post along a similar line elsewhere on the site but I've replied to you because you seem more reasonably minded and polite. A large number of players on this forum are winning players. They're winning players because they've practised, read-up and talked about poker for many years with others who are doing the same. They've put a great deal of effort into becoming winning players... then someone comes along and suggests that those winning players only win because the game is rigged. How annoyed would you be in their place? It's a game of thin edges where the best players only win a little more frequently than break even players, and break even players only win a little more frequently than losing players. One of the top MTT players on this site only has an ROI of 17% across his entire time on here. He has become a much, much better player than the vast majority on the site but he has only made 17p per pound he's invested. Nobody can win huge all the time. Usually I ignore this type of post because it's very rare that anyone reacts well to being told that if they're not winning, it's because they're not that good. I don't want to upset you but if I told you otherwise, I wouldn't be doing you any favours. The games are not rigged. The site is audited and checked and everything is fair. Improve your game and you might start to win... but everyone else is trying to improve too. Posted by BorinLoner
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. Appreciate it. Wasnt sure where to post my comments to be honest.
Let me firstly clear up the fact that I never said that Sky Poker was rigged. If you feel you need to make a point that it is not rigged that is your choice. If I thought it for a second that it was rigged I would have left Sky Poker a long time ago.
I am merely frustrated when I make the right decisions and probability doesnt back my decisions often enough. I am a firm believer in the mathematical side of the game although I am aware that everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time, and I also am capable of a bit of creative play at times. I am also aware that sometimes you do have to get your chips in when youre behind, especially in drawing situations, but the situations i was referring to were getting all of my chips in pre flop and 9 times out of 10 having the better hand than my opponent and winning less than 5 out of 10 times which cant be right in anyone's book. I just used the last few games as an example as it happened 3 times on the spin.
Im not trying to get lucky. Just dont want to be unlucky. Try not to have to rely on it, but it seems to go a bit too far the other way for my liking.
I am a decent enough player to make a bit of money at the level I play at and if the correct decisions I make in these situations are supported by the odds which shouldnt be too much to ask then I should do fine but this just doesnt happen.
I cant complain about the last two tables I just played at( I didn't play my best poker ever) and to show that I'm being honest but still not having much luck here are the 3 hands which took me out 5.50 Double Ups:-
Table 1 - All in pre (1700) from the button AJ suited blinds 200/400. BB calls has me covered AQ. Both hit trip As. Lost to kicker. Not great fortune but cant complain.
Table 2 - Button all in pre JJ 1600. Blinds 150/300. Me on BB called had him covered with 2000. I have AQ and pair As on flop ahead. J on turn for his set. I lose. Not great fortune but cant complain.
Table 2 - Down to 400 chips. I shove on the button 8 6. SB folds. Blinds 150/300. BB rightly calls with 44. I flop straight ahead, he hits set 4,5,7. Turn 4 he hits quads. I lose. Cant complain with starting hands but still! Come on!
I play live poker too and although this happens on a very rare occasion, its pretty **** rare. Not every time you sit down at a table. It's not just me it happens too. Just had to say something after seeing it happen too often for too long.
The first hand: Unlucky. Nothing you can do there.
Hand two: I'm not a DYM expert and it depends largely on how near we are to the bubble but there will be many situations where this call is a mistake. Since we have only to make the top 3, calling is never something we really want to be doing. If we're still 5 or 6-handed then I expect this should be a call but if we're on the bubble it's almost certainly a fold with our stack even if we think we're way ahead of our opponent's range. If you could find this hand in your hand history and post it in the Poker Clinic section, that would probably be beneficial. With the full information you'll get better feedback from more knowledgeable players than me. It may be another cooler but the way DYM's play means it may not be.
Hand 3: Without knowing how you dropped to this stack size it's difficult to say how you've been playing but the truth is that this hand isn't the biggest reason that you lost the DYM, falling to such a short stack is. You needed to survive multiple all-ins to win, so the odds of a particular hand were not the odds of you making the cash.
How the run-out of this particular hand happens isn't relevant. Yes he hit quads but the only odds that matter are the ones when the money goes in. I don't think you should even be shoving this hand, to be honest. You could fold and get at least one more hand before the blinds and chances are it would be better than 8-high. Ultimately you know you're not going to win without a showdown, so 92 would be a better hand to shove with.
Those are 3 particular hands and, as I say, I'm far from the biggest expert on DYM's. However, the one or two "mistakes" you made in those hands (in my opinion) are likely to be ones you're repeating in other games.
When you say that you're only winning 5 out of 10 times when getting it in as a favourite, obviously I can't know if that's just how you're perceiving things at the moment because you're on a bad run of results or if that's actually how it's been. However, I would say that people are predisposed to remember the times we lose more than the times we win and this is particularly true when we feel a sense of injustice. You may be overlooking winning the flips or winning when you're a favourite because that's unremarkable to your mind.
It may also be that you are in fact running below expectations at the moment. However, winning only half of the time when we're a favourite isn't that unusual over a relatively small sample, especially since much of the time we're only getting it in as a 55%-70% favourite anyway. It's unusual for us to get it in as a bigger favourite than that and runs of variance like this are, unfortunately, natural to the game. This variance only really evens out over the course of a very long period.
I know what you're saying about this not happening every time when you play live but you have to remember that when you play live you probably play a third as many hands as you would per table online. Also, recreational players tend to play a lot tighter when playing live. Usually the games they play live are higher stakes than those they play online so they don't want to risk playing weaker hands. This means that you don't see so many confrontations when playing live that don't involve big hands. Online you see plenty of those hands and sometimes the weak hand does win. I would also assume that you don't play DYM's when you're playing live since I've never seen a live DYM, lol. This would also go some way to explaining the difference.
I've heard it said a thousand times that online poker isn't the same as live or the odds aren't the same. I've never seen anyone produce any evidence and if that evidence existed, I don't think the poker sites would survive for long. There are things to worry about when playing online poker, especially in formats like DYM's, but the fairness or integrity of the software really isn't one of them... unless you used to play on Absolute poker/Ultimate Bet.
Thanks for the polite response. As I said, most people posting this sort of thing don't tend to be reasonable.
Just looking at the three hands you've posted; The first hand: Unlucky. Nothing you can do there. Hand two: I'm not a DYM expert and it depends largely on how near we are to the bubble but there will be many situations where this call is a mistake. Since we have only to make the top 3, calling is never something we really want to be doing. If we're still 5 or 6-handed then I expect this should be a call but if we're on the bubble it's almost certainly a fold with our stack even if we think we're way ahead of our opponent's range. If you could find this hand in your hand history and post it in the Poker Clinic section, that would probably be beneficial. With the full information you'll get better feedback from more knowledgeable players than me. It may be another cooler but the way DYM's play means it may not be. Hand 3: Without knowing how you dropped to this stack size it's difficult to say how you've been playing but the truth is that this hand isn't the biggest reason that you lost the DYM, falling to such a short stack is. You needed to survive multiple all-ins to win, so the odds of a particular hand were not the odds of you making the cash. How the run-out of this particular hand happens isn't relevant. Yes he hit quads but the only odds that matter are the ones when the money goes in. I don't think you should even be shoving this hand, to be honest. You could fold and get at least one more hand before the blinds and chances are it would be better than 8-high. Ultimately you know you're not going to win without a showdown, so 92 would be a better hand to shove with. Those are 3 particular hands and, as I say, I'm far from the biggest expert on DYM's. However, the one or two "mistakes" you made in those hands (in my opinion) are likely to be ones you're repeating in other games. When you say that you're only winning 5 out of 10 times when getting it in as a favourite, obviously I can't know if that's just how you're perceiving things at the moment because you're on a bad run of results or if that's actually how it's been. However, I would say that people are predisposed to remember the times we lose more than the times we win and this is particularly true when we feel a sense of injustice. You may be overlooking winning the flips or winning when you're a favourite because that's unremarkable to your mind. It may also be that you are in fact running below expectations at the moment. However, winning only half of the time when we're a favourite isn't that unusual over a relatively small sample, especially since much of the time we're only getting it in as a 55%-70% favourite anyway. It's unusual for us to get it in as a bigger favourite than that and runs of variance like this are, unfortunately, natural to the game. This variance only really evens out over the course of a very long period. I know what you're saying about this not happening every time when you play live but you have to remember that when you play live you probably play a third as many hands as you would per table online. Also, recreational players tend to play a lot tighter when playing live. Usually the games they play live are higher stakes than those they play online so they don't want to risk playing weaker hands. This means that you don't see so many confrontations when playing live that don't involve big hands. Online you see plenty of those hands and sometimes the weak hand does win. I would also assume that you don't play DYM's when you're playing live since I've never seen a live DYM, lol. This would also go some way to explaining the difference. I've heard it said a thousand times that online poker isn't the same as live or the odds aren't the same. I've never seen anyone produce any evidence and if that evidence existed, I don't think the poker sites would survive for long. There are things to worry about when playing online poker, especially in formats like DYM's, but the fairness or integrity of the software really isn't one of them... unless you used to play on Absolute poker/Ultimate Bet. Thanks for the polite response. As I said, most people posting this sort of thing don't tend to be reasonable. Posted by BorinLoner[/QUOTE
No problem. Thanks again for your response. I ended up short stacked after being beaten by pocket Js when I had AQ. The 2nd hand I mentioned. I do try to be honest about my play and I still think that I dont really get the rub of the green but I will keep trying to learn and improve as I always do and I might get in touch again to let you know how its going. Thanks again!
for living their poker dreams turned nightmares in public so we can all understand the true nature of this beast we are in love with, and what it can do to you
and you might have to add Lambert180 to the list if his downswing continues
Wilhelm Consistent good, positive posts Posted by Jac35
Little bit out of the blue, but I'll take it!
Congrats on your bink on Saturday mate. I was the one staring at you in the smoking area immediately after the h/u duel, unable to speak due to low brain activity.
MP33 MUST GET A SEAT,KEEPS HIS POSTS GOING IN THE RAIL,AND NOT MANY PEOPLE ANSWER HIM,HE IS ONE STAR OFF THE RAIL,TAKE A LOOK SKY_SAM THANKS PAIGE XXX Posted by paige55
lol - Cheers Paige
I,ve taken my own nomination off as id had a few drinks at the time
I,d go for FCHD for now and nominate some more soon
In Response to Re: Top of the Posts! : lol - Cheers Paige I,ve taken my own nomination off as id had a few drinks at the time I,d go for FCHD for now and nominate some more soon Posted by MP33
i still think you should have a place, MP33 DOES POST IN THE RAIL OFTEN AND NEVER GET,S UPSET WHEN HE GET,S NO REPLY,PLEASE GIVE HIM A PLACE SKY_SAM REGARDS PAIGE XXX
In Response to Re: Top of the Posts! : i still think you should have a place, MP33 DOES POST IN THE RAIL OFTEN AND NEVER GET,S UPSET WHEN HE GET,S NO REPLY,PLEASE GIVE HIM A PLACE SKY_SAM REGARDS PAIGE XXX Posted by paige55
+1 mp33 and FCHD get my vote.......along with you too paige, your posts always make me laugh!
Comments
Let me firstly clear up the fact that I never said that Sky Poker was rigged. If you feel you need to make a point that it is not rigged that is your choice. If I thought it for a second that it was rigged I would have left Sky Poker a long time ago.
I am merely frustrated when I make the right decisions and probability doesnt back my decisions often enough. I am a firm believer in the mathematical side of the game although I am aware that everyone needs a bit of luck from time to time, and I also am capable of a bit of creative play at times. I am also aware that sometimes you do have to get your chips in when youre behind, especially in drawing situations, but the situations i was referring to were getting all of my chips in pre flop and 9 times out of 10 having the better hand than my opponent and winning less than 5 out of 10 times which cant be right in anyone's book. I just used the last few games as an example as it happened 3 times on the spin.
Im not trying to get lucky. Just dont want to be unlucky. Try not to have to rely on it, but it seems to go a bit too far the other way for my liking.
I am a decent enough player to make a bit of money at the level I play at and if the correct decisions I make
in these situations are supported by the odds which shouldnt be too much to ask then I should do fine but this just doesnt happen.
I cant complain about the last two tables I just played at( I didn't play my best poker ever) and to show that I'm being honest but still not having much luck here are the 3 hands which took me out 5.50 Double Ups:-
Table 1 - All in pre (1700) from the button AJ suited blinds 200/400. BB calls has me covered AQ. Both hit trip As. Lost to kicker. Not great fortune but cant complain.
Table 2 - Button all in pre JJ 1600. Blinds 150/300. Me on BB called had him covered with 2000. I have AQ and pair As on flop ahead. J on turn for his set. I lose. Not great fortune but cant complain.
Table 2 - Down to 400 chips. I shove on the button 8 6. SB folds. Blinds 150/300. BB rightly calls with 44. I flop straight ahead, he hits set 4,5,7. Turn 4 he hits quads. I lose. Cant complain with starting hands but still! Come on!
I play live poker too and although this happens on a very rare occasion, its pretty **** rare. Not every time you sit down at a table. It's not just me it happens too. Just had to say something after seeing it happen too often for too long.
Be good to hear from you again. Cheers!
The first hand: Unlucky. Nothing you can do there.
Hand two: I'm not a DYM expert and it depends largely on how near we are to the bubble but there will be many situations where this call is a mistake. Since we have only to make the top 3, calling is never something we really want to be doing. If we're still 5 or 6-handed then I expect this should be a call but if we're on the bubble it's almost certainly a fold with our stack even if we think we're way ahead of our opponent's range. If you could find this hand in your hand history and post it in the Poker Clinic section, that would probably be beneficial. With the full information you'll get better feedback from more knowledgeable players than me. It may be another cooler but the way DYM's play means it may not be.
Hand 3: Without knowing how you dropped to this stack size it's difficult to say how you've been playing but the truth is that this hand isn't the biggest reason that you lost the DYM, falling to such a short stack is. You needed to survive multiple all-ins to win, so the odds of a particular hand were not the odds of you making the cash.
How the run-out of this particular hand happens isn't relevant. Yes he hit quads but the only odds that matter are the ones when the money goes in. I don't think you should even be shoving this hand, to be honest. You could fold and get at least one more hand before the blinds and chances are it would be better than 8-high. Ultimately you know you're not going to win without a showdown, so 92 would be a better hand to shove with.
Those are 3 particular hands and, as I say, I'm far from the biggest expert on DYM's. However, the one or two "mistakes" you made in those hands (in my opinion) are likely to be ones you're repeating in other games.
When you say that you're only winning 5 out of 10 times when getting it in as a favourite, obviously I can't know if that's just how you're perceiving things at the moment because you're on a bad run of results or if that's actually how it's been. However, I would say that people are predisposed to remember the times we lose more than the times we win and this is particularly true when we feel a sense of injustice. You may be overlooking winning the flips or winning when you're a favourite because that's unremarkable to your mind.
It may also be that you are in fact running below expectations at the moment. However, winning only half of the time when we're a favourite isn't that unusual over a relatively small sample, especially since much of the time we're only getting it in as a 55%-70% favourite anyway. It's unusual for us to get it in as a bigger favourite than that and runs of variance like this are, unfortunately, natural to the game. This variance only really evens out over the course of a very long period.
I know what you're saying about this not happening every time when you play live but you have to remember that when you play live you probably play a third as many hands as you would per table online. Also, recreational players tend to play a lot tighter when playing live. Usually the games they play live are higher stakes than those they play online so they don't want to risk playing weaker hands. This means that you don't see so many confrontations when playing live that don't involve big hands. Online you see plenty of those hands and sometimes the weak hand does win. I would also assume that you don't play DYM's when you're playing live since I've never seen a live DYM, lol. This would also go some way to explaining the difference.
I've heard it said a thousand times that online poker isn't the same as live or the odds aren't the same. I've never seen anyone produce any evidence and if that evidence existed, I don't think the poker sites would survive for long. There are things to worry about when playing online poker, especially in formats like DYM's, but the fairness or integrity of the software really isn't one of them... unless you used to play on Absolute poker/Ultimate Bet.
Thanks for the polite response. As I said, most people posting this sort of thing don't tend to be reasonable.
Anywayz... get 'em in early.
Percival for his EV of helping others thread.
More nominations to come if we get some good conversation starters
[QUOTE]Crikey!
Posted by percival09
lol . I,ve seen shorter blogs than these posts
&
waller02
for living their poker dreams turned nightmares in public so we can all understand the true nature of this beast we are in love with, and what it can do to you
and you might have to add Lambert180 to the list if his downswing continues
Congrats on your bink on Saturday mate. I was the one staring at you in the smoking area immediately after the h/u duel, unable to speak due to low brain activity.
If that warrants being awarded a top of the posts seat then something aint right lol