In case its not obvious, I want advice specifica11y for the 1imit I am p1aying

Wilhelm

I can't help feel I have done something wrong to get myself into a situation where I have to fold this hand.  Maybe I don't???

 

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
smudgelib	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.32
Wilhelm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
Tsaaaar	Sit out
	Your hole cards	8 3
greenwood1	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.84
peepers	Fold
helrick	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.96
mrmart	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£3.13
gordon1954	Call		£0.04	£0.22	£8.22
smudgelib	Call		£0.02	£0.24	£3.30
Wilhelm	Check
Flop
		5 J 6
smudgelib	Check
Wilhelm	Check
greenwood1	Check
helrick	Check
mrmart	Check
gordon1954	Check
Turn
		7
smudgelib	Bet		£0.04	£0.28	£3.26
Wilhelm	Call		£0.04	£0.32	£3.92
greenwood1	Call		£0.04	£0.36	£5.80
helrick	Fold
mrmart	Call		£0.04	£0.40	£3.09
gordon1954	Call		£0.04	£0.44	£8.18
River
		4
smudgelib	Bet		£0.04	£0.48	£3.22
Wilhelm	Raise		£0.30	£0.78	£3.62
greenwood1	Raise		£0.56	£1.34	£5.24
mrmart	Fold
gordon1954	Fold
smudgelib	Raise		£0.78	£2.12	£2.44
Wilhelm	Fold

Lambert180

I think you just need to fold. limped family pot and then suddenly everyone wakes up on the river. You've committed hardly anything, best to just let it go.

grantorino

Fold turn

Fold to cold 3b on river

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

Fold turn Fold to cold 3b on river
Posted by grantorino

Yeah I thought ca11ing the turn might be a mistake.  I was thinking that I might have implieds for the straight flush if someone has the As but mb not

Having got to the river, I have to raise though I think

huuuuume

flat the first raise on the river and fold to the reraise.  you could then fold having invested just 12p

i would rather lose my right arm than fold an open ended straight flush draw for 4p on the turn.

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

flat the first raise on the river and fold to the reraise.  you could then fold having invested just 12p i would rather lose my right arm than fold an open ended straight flush draw for 4p on the turn.
Posted by huuuuume

Bit resu1ts orientated, no?

percival09

no - he's just saying call/fold river

bolly580

shudnt raise never getting called by worse

grantorino

I can't read didn't see you had straight flush draw as well

Turn ok, but you are going to get raised behind enough for me to prefer my right hand

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

shudnt raise never getting called by worse
Posted by bolly580

This is wrong.  At this level I am getting called by plenty worse and getting raised by a few worse hands also.

percival09

why are you asking for advice then? 

fwiw I think calling the 4p bet is much better than raising with the players you have behind

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

why are you asking for advice then?  fwiw I think calling the 4p bet is much better than raising with the players you have behind
Posted by percival09

Just because I know I can get people to call with worse doesn't mean I have to raise.  I'm happy with people telling me not to raise but when the reason for them telling me not to raise is wrong, I discount it.  Is that fair enough?

huuuuume

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action : Bit resu1ts orientated, no?
Posted by Wilhelm

not particularly.  when you reraise the river the strength of your hand becomes pretty obvious to even the weakest of players so i dont think you will ever be getting enough value to make the raise +ev with players still to act behind you. 

huuuuume

op you need to remember that you are showing us an individual hand in a vacuum.  i have no doubt that there will be situations where you can raise the most obvious made hand on the board successfully but this is not one of those situations imo

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action : not particularly.  when you reraise the river the strength of your hand becomes pretty obvious to even the weakest of players so i dont think you will ever be getting enough value to make the raise +ev with players still to act behind you. 
Posted by huuuuume

Im going to have to be stubborn on this one.

The avaerage NL4 player must be weaker than the weakest of players.  Imo most players at this level will call with top pair, because its on1y 30p.  My main concern is whether enough worse hands raise here and force me to fo1d, or something e1se that means raising here is wrong.  Is it just that there are too many hands beating me?  It definate1y isnt because enough worse hands arent ca11ing.  They are.

huuuuume

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action : Im going to have to be stubborn on this one. The avaerage NL4 player must be weaker than the weakest of players.  Imo most players at this level will call with top pair, because its on1y 30p.  My main concern is whether enough worse hands raise here and force me to fo1d, or something e1se that means raising here is wrong.  Is it just that there are too many hands beating me?  It definate1y isnt because enough worse hands arent ca11ing.  They are.
Posted by Wilhelm

from what you've said about the standard of nl4 it should mean there is literally no chance that you're being exploited here.  the only thing to worry about is someone with the exact same hand raising you.  problem is you've inflated the pot and put yourself in a difficult situation where you have to fold a hand that has a lot of showdown value.

im not disputing that people with top pair may call here...the point i made is that in this particular individual situation i dont think the reraise on the river will be +ev in the long term

beaneh

meh don't fold turn unless you're 50 tabling, small raise never call a reraise on the river is fine. flatting river isn't awful.

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action:

In Response to Re: River Straight Heavy Action : from what you've said about the standard of nl4 it should mean there is literally no chance that you're being exploited here.  the only thing to worry about is someone with the exact same hand raising you.  problem is you've inflated the pot and put yourself in a difficult situation where you have to fold a hand that has a lot of showdown value. im not disputing that people with top pair may call here...the point i made is that in this particular individual situation i dont think the reraise on the river will be +ev in the long term
Posted by huuuuume

Yeah, you might be right.  I'm probably just trolling myself.

Thought I'd share teh outcome 'cos it made me laugh.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
XXX	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.32
Wilhelm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
XXX	Sit out
	Your hole cards	https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">8 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="club">3
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.84
XXX	Fold
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.96
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£3.13
https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/hhdealer.gif'); background-color: transparent; background-position: 100% 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="dealer">XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.22	£8.22
XXX	Call		£0.02	£0.24	£3.30
Wilhelm	Check
Flop
		https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">5 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">J https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">6
XXX	Check
Wilhelm	Check
XXX	Check
XXX	Check
XXX	Check
XXX	Check
Turn
		https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">7
XXX	Bet		£0.04	£0.28	£3.26
Wilhelm	Call		£0.04	£0.32	£3.92
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.36	£5.80
XXX	Fold
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.40	£3.09
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.44	£8.18
River
		https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="club">4
XXX	Bet		£0.04	£0.48	£3.22
Wilhelm	Raise		£0.30	£0.78	£3.62
XXX	Raise		£0.56	£1.34	£5.24
XXX	Fold
XXX	Fold
XXX	Raise		£0.78	£2.12	£2.44
Wilhelm	Fold
XXX	Raise		£0.52	£2.64	£4.72
XXX	Call		£0.26	£2.90	£2.18
XXX	Show	https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">3 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="club">Q
XXX	Muck	https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">7 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">5
XXX	Win	Straight to the 7	£2.68		£7.40

beaneh

if they reraise you off a chop then who cares, make a note of their willingness to overplay their hand and punish them in the future?

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: In case its not obvious, I want advice specifica11y for the 1imit I am p1aying:

if they reraise you off a chop then who cares, make a note of their willingness to overplay their hand and punish them in the future?
Posted by beaneh

I take your point, but it wasnt a chop.  I had a higher straight.

He gave the money back over the course of the night btw

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
XXX	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.32
Wilhelm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
XXX	Sit out
	Your hole cards	https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">8 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="club">3
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.84
XXX	Fold
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.96
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£3.13
https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/hhdealer.gif'); background-color: transparent; background-position: 100% 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="dealer">XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.22	£8.22
XXX	Call		£0.02	£0.24	£3.30
Wilhelm	Check
Flop
		https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">5 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">J https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">6
XXX	Check
Wilhelm	Check
XXX	Check
XXX	Check
XXX	Check
XXX	Check
Turn
		https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">7
XXX	Bet		£0.04	£0.28	£3.26
Wilhelm	Call		£0.04	£0.32	£3.92
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.36	£5.80
XXX	Fold
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.40	£3.09
XXX	Call		£0.04	£0.44	£8.18
River
		https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="club">4
XXX	Bet		£0.04	£0.48	£3.22
Wilhelm	Raise		£0.30	£0.78	£3.62
XXX	Raise		£0.56	£1.34	£5.24
XXX	Fold
XXX	Fold
XXX	Raise		£0.78	£2.12	£2.44
Wilhelm	Fold
XXX	Raise		£0.52	£2.64	£4.72
XXX	Call		£0.26	£2.90	£2.18
XXX	Show	https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">3 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="club">Q
XXX	Muck	https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">7 https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/diamond.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="diamond">5
XXX	Win	Straight to the 7	£2.68		£7.40

DrSharp

Ok, i know the result but even before then i was thinking 'am i missing something here?'.

I like the way you played it apart from the fold on the end. I'm not folding, i might call the river rather than shoving but i am no way folding this.