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Folding JJ Pre

Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
edited August 2012 in The Poker Clinic
I know it sounds a bit nitty but should I have folded here? When he's 4bet to this amount he is never folding, and obv calling is out of the question, so it's shove or fold. At the time, I snap-shoved but regretted it straight away (before I saw he had KK lol) and now I figure I'm only ever flipping or crushed and even if I'm flipping as a marginal favourite, aren't I losing to rake in these spots anyway?

I guess the moral of the story is, don't 3bet if you aint planning to call a 4bet (unless it's as a bluff, which I wouldn't do at this level).
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
triptee88 Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £1.74
gogogadget Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £9.79
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • J
     
Carnage Raise   £0.16 £0.22 £2.99
Lambert180 Raise   £0.44 £0.66 £5.42
clubhammer Fold        
TROOP_1 Fold        
triptee88 Fold        
gogogadget Fold        
Carnage Raise   £1.12 £1.78 £1.87
Lambert180 All-in   £5.42 £7.20 £0.00
Carnage All-in   £1.87 £9.07 £0.00
Lambert180 Unmatched bet   £2.71 £6.36 £2.71
Carnage Show
  • K
  • K
     
Lambert180 Show
  • J
  • J
     
Flop
   
  • K
  • 8
  • A
     
Turn
   
  • 6
     
River
   
  • Q
     
Carnage Win Three Kings £5.88   £5.88
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Comments

  • WilhelmWilhelm Member Posts: 1,730
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Folding JJ Pre:
    I know it sounds a bit nitty but should I have folded here? When he's 4bet to this amount he is never folding, and obv calling is out of the question, so it's shove or fold. At the time, I snap-shoved but regretted it straight away (before I saw he had KK lol) and now I figure I'm only ever flipping or crushed and even if I'm flipping as a marginal favourite, aren't I losing to rake in these spots anyway? I guess the moral of the story is, don't 3bet if you aint planning to call a 4bet (unless it's as a bluff, which I wouldn't do at this level). Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance triptee88 Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £1.74 gogogadget Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £9.79   Your hole cards J J       Carnage Raise   £0.16 £0.22 £2.99 Lambert180 Raise   £0.44 £0.66 £5.42 clubhammer Fold         TROOP_1 Fold         triptee88 Fold         gogogadget Fold         Carnage Raise   £1.12 £1.78 £1.87 Lambert180 All-in   £5.42 £7.20 £0.00 Carnage All-in   £1.87 £9.07 £0.00 Lambert180 Unmatched bet   £2.71 £6.36 £2.71 Carnage Show K K       Lambert180 Show J J       Flop     K 8 A       Turn     6       River     Q       Carnage Win Three Kings £5.88   £5.88
    Posted by Lambert180
    Yeah, think you answered your own question.  I much prefer a ca11.  At NL4 the aggressive dynamic needed to make 3betting JJ a must is usually missing.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited August 2012
    i would flat JJ preflop to an utg 4x raise w/o reads otherwise
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2012
    Agree with flatting readless

    3b/f might be ok with reads,  not too sure when he's only 75 deep though
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: Folding JJ Pre:
    Agree with flatting readless 3b/f might be ok with reads,  not too sure when he's only 75 deep though
    Posted by grantorino
    My only thinking though, from what I've been told/heard, if I'm gonna 3b/f then I might aswell do it with 45s as appose to a value hand like JJ.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2012
    Well 3b/f readless is bad

    Against fish who call 3b wide but only 4b KK+ you can 3b/f. 

    If they don't flat much what you say above is correct, and in general JJ is too strong to 3b/f

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  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited August 2012
    3 betting is fine as you have position and a premium hand. 

    i dont imagine 4 betting is that common at nl4 so when he does 4bet i think its a pretty easy fold.  the worst case scenario is you're wrong and he 4 bet a weaker hand than jj and you lose 44p
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  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: Folding JJ Pre:
    In Response to Re: Folding JJ Pre : My only thinking though, from what I've been told/heard, if I'm gonna 3b/f then I might aswell do it with 45s as appose to a value hand like JJ.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Exactly. But please dont do it at NL4. You should already know what your doing before you 3 bet pre. I prefer a flat pre at NL4.
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  • ayrshire10ayrshire10 Member Posts: 17
    edited August 2012
    j-j is  a solid hand its just a pity he had kings, he could have been betting with 9-9 or 10-10 so . It's a flip of the coin imo

    I'm a noob though so anything i say is irrelevant :)
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  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: Folding JJ Pre:
    j-j is  a solid hand its just a pity he had kings, he could have been betting with 9-9 or 10-10 so . It's a flip of the coin imo I'm a noob though so anything i say is irrelevant :)
    Posted by ayrshire10
    Hi Ayr
    Sent you a PM (Private Message) regarding your AK
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  • ayrshire10ayrshire10 Member Posts: 17
    edited August 2012
    thanks POKERTREV :)
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited August 2012
    V this opponent i can fold.
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