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General Play...

sighcallsighcall Member Posts: 497
edited August 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Should I 3 BET pre? How well/bad did I play the hand? No nits please.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancedukiladSmall blind £0.15£0.15£11.38ScrivenerBig blind £0.30£0.45£33.65 Your hole cardsKJ   westslay23Raise £0.90£1.35£28.80KICKER605Fold    niko38Fold    sighcallRaise £2.70£4.05£25.81dukiladFold    ScrivenerFold    westslay23Call £1.80£5.85£27.00Flop  377   westslay23Check    sighcallBet £3.90£9.75£21.91westslay23Call £3.90£13.65£23.10Turn  J   westslay23Bet £5.00£18.65£18.10sighcallRaise £16.83£35.48£5.08westslay23Fold    sighcallMuck    sighcallWin £22.46 £27.54sighcallReturn £11.83£1.19£39.37
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2012
    It's one of them horrible hands KJo, I don't like 3betting with it, but I don't really love flatting either.

    Once you 3bet, you had to c-bet, decent size bet. I can't see the stack sizes is this practically all-in for you or him? I guess you're raising to protect because there are VERY few hands that will call your raise that you're ahead of.
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  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited August 2012
    pre a flop play pretty standard.. turn is close imo dont see many worse hands to get value from when we raise so id probally flat to get more value on the river 
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2012
    Amazed V bet/folds that turn.

    You're obv still bluffing on the turn v him right? ;)

    Maybe it's a diff vill, his name doesn't look like it's spelt quite right.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited August 2012
    def flatting turn, esp. as we have Ks
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2012
    can't answer your question about 3betting without any reads. Readless I don't 3b an utg raise w/ KJo. You can 3b sometimes with kj obv but I don't think this is a good spot
    I'm definitely flatting turn
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  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited August 2012
    against that villain the 3 bet with kj is going to cost you money in the long run.  his utg range will generally have you completely dominated here. 
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  • sighcallsighcall Member Posts: 497
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: General Play...:
    against that villain the 3 bet with kj is going to cost you money in the long run.  his utg range will generally have you completely dominated here. 
    Posted by huuuuume
    tbh i wasnt really looking for against this player, just in general, thanks anyway.

    sigh.
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  • sighcallsighcall Member Posts: 497
    edited August 2012
    Seems like a mixed bag overall. 

    I prob should have just called turn. There is always next time. 


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  • MickFoleyMickFoley Member Posts: 86
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: General Play...:
    In Response to Re: General Play... : tbh i wasnt really looking for against this player, just in general, thanks anyway. sigh.
    Posted by sighcall
    SIGH at your play, remove the blindfold wasnt really looking at anythign were you. Just saw the J on the screen and Snap bet bet bet oh wait i practically make nuts vs him I raise (Panic attack)
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2012
    flat or fold pre with no info - are u 3 betting for value or bluff

    flat turn, suppose if your raising turn for value then 3 betting pre for value is ok :S

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  • sighcallsighcall Member Posts: 497
    edited August 2012
    Overall there is a mixed opinion about my pre-flop play. I just feel its bad to just 3 bet the strongest hands all the time. 

    As for the turn i should have called, It was just his tiny bet that put me off. Thourght he could have A spades or something and didnt want to let him see the river cheap.
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  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: General Play...:
    In Response to Re: General Play... : tbh i wasnt really looking for against this player, just in general, thanks anyway. sigh.
    Posted by sighcall
    you're welcome to 3 bet your button all day long as far as i'm concerned but if you dont start looking at who it is you're 3betting and what their opening range may be it'll end up costing you a fortune. there are many factors which affect whether this is a good 3bet or not and you dont seem to realise or appreciate any of them. 

    if we ignore the fact that the player you're 3betting is better than you and has a pretty narrow utg raising range then the 3bet is ok
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  • sighcallsighcall Member Posts: 497
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: General Play...:
    In Response to Re: General Play... : you're welcome to 3 bet your button all day long as far as i'm concerned but if you dont start looking at who it is you're 3betting and what their opening range may be it'll end up costing you a fortune. there are many factors which affect whether this is a good 3bet or not and you dont seem to realise or appreciate any of them.  if we ignore the fact that the player you're 3betting is better than you and has a pretty narrow utg raising range then the 3bet is ok
    Posted by huuuuume
    thanks for the advice, could you explain what these factors are?

    Also I should have blocked out the alias, I personally havent played this guy so I dont know his play but he seemed to be opening alot.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2012
    Biggest factor is will oppo fold or what will oppo call with -

    if oppo 4 bets u fold

    so we only intrested in what oppo calls with and what oppo open with UTG and then folds to a 3 bet

    if you have no idea of oppo opening range or continuation range then how do you know if your 3 betting profitabily


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  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: General Play...:
    In Response to Re: General Play... : thanks for the advice, could you explain what these factors are? Also I should have blocked out the alias, I personally havent played this guy so I dont know his play but he seemed to be opening alot.
    Posted by sighcall
    it depends a lot on the players and what tendancies of their's you pick up.  some players open all suited connecting hands utg whereas some fold, some will then go onto flat your 3bet, some may even 4bet.  some tight players fold all the way up to AJ utg.  some players will flat every time you 3 bet. some players will either 4bet or fold.  some players fold pocket pairs pre to a 3bet, some won't.

    so in general its very opponent specific.  what range do they open utg with?  how will they react to your 3 bet? 

    i dont think there is much value to be had 3betting this specific opponent pre flop with kj off without some clear read on what he's doing.  some players its standard to 3bet here.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2012
    Ask yourself what kind of oppo do you want to be 3 betting here with KJo

    Main concern is if oppo flats your 3 bet, what is oppo's range and how do we play against that range to win money

    Any hand oppo continues with when you raise turn has you beat






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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2012
    Dont 3b KJ v utg readless.

    I dont hate giving up on this flop, you need at least 2 bullets in your gun if you wanna bet

    Turn raise is pretty bad in a vacuum, its tough for him to call with worse or fold better
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