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PLEASE.... was this the right fold??!

mrdaviesmrdavies Member Posts: 475
edited August 2012 in The Poker Clinic
daragh1980 Small blind  £0.20 £0.20 £59.84
highking11 Big blind  £0.40 £0.60 £35.03
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • J
     
PokerKinga Raise  £1.20 £1.80 £42.61
craigieboy Call  £1.20 £3.00 £25.25
mrdavies Call  £1.20 £4.20 £36.38
flower11 Fold     
daragh1980 Fold     
highking11 Call  £0.80 £5.00 £34.23
Flop
   
  • 7
  • J
  • 6
     
highking11 Check     
PokerKinga Bet  £1.60 £6.60 £41.01
craigieboy Fold     
mrdavies Call  £1.60 £8.20 £34.78
highking11 Fold     
Turn
   
  • 2
     
PokerKinga Bet  £4.00 £12.20 £37.01
mrdavies Call  £4.00 £16.20 £30.78
River
   
  • Q
     
PokerKinga Bet  £12.15 £28.35 £24.86
mrdavies Fold     
PokerKinga Muck     
PokerKinga Win  £15.39  £40.25
PokerKinga Return  £12.15 £0.81 £52.40
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited August 2012
    I think you should definitely raise the flop, you're almost certainly ahead and have plenty of outs to the 2nd nuts.

    I can't help but think he's trying to make you fold a FD when you've played it so passively, I think I call.
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2012
    his bet sizes are weird. 

    I think it's close. I probably play it the same and fold river. I might fold pre too but it's ok

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited August 2012
    His size all the way through is really weird, I reckon he's flopped the nuts.
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  • hndlkcoolhndlkcool Member Posts: 2
    edited August 2012
    dont think i would of played it pre flop but given you flopped top pair with flush draw think my bet would be larger to define my hand your flat calling wasnt strong and allowed him to push you off your hand,

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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited August 2012
    Fold pre or 3 bet calling is the worst of the options.  Raising the flop would be really bad Lambert.  Raising the flop with top pair marginal kicker into 5 players are we bluffing? or raising for information which is not how poker is aplayed anymore we have to play our hand down the streets and evaluate.  As played i probly sigh call the river but i wouldnt have played hte hand to start with and if i did play it it would be a 3 bet preflop.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2012
    if u call turn then call river
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2012
    why?
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: PLEASE.... was this the right fold??!:
    why?
    Posted by percival09

    is that why in general or aimed at me ?
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited August 2012
    sorry yeah it was aimed at you
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: PLEASE.... was this the right fold??!:
    if u call turn then call river
    Posted by rancid
    Disagree. We missed our draw and Q improves some of range we beat on turn. Also his 2barrelling and 3barrelling ranges are probably not the same

    Think hero played hand fine, although he could either fold or 3b pre
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited August 2012
    In general you should never take this line. Call pre-flop, call flop, call turn and fold river. This is the most effective way to guarentee losing money. You have not given yourself any chance of winning the hand. At no point have you made an aggressive action to make the villian fold and you don't even get to showdown, so you don't win if he's bluffing/value betting a worse hand.

    When you face a bet on the turn after calling on the flop like this ask yourself "do I call a bet on the river?". If the answer is no, the fold to the bet on the turn. It's so unlikely that he has the queen here that the queen is pretty much a blank. He could have a Qdx hand or AdQx  and if he does it's just unlucky.

    When he bets 1/2 pot at the blank turn you should call this bet and decided what you are doing on the river. ie "I call here because I have the best hand, I think he has a flush draw. Therefore he will value bet a diamond river and I call - losing to the Ad bad luck, nice hand! - and he may bluff the river with his flush draw and I call and win with my 2nd pair. If he rivers a better pair, bad luck, nice hand!

    Call pre, call flop, call turn, fold river is THE single least profitable line in poker.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: PLEASE.... was this the right fold??!:
    In Response to Re: PLEASE.... was this the right fold??! : Disagree. We missed our draw and Q improves some of range we beat on turn. Also his 2barrelling and 3barrelling ranges are probably not the same Think hero played hand fine, although he could either fold or 3b pre
    Posted by grantorino
    percival & GT

    see what you both getting at but do we have to say only QJ

    suppose river card does change things a little

    do we only call turn to hit flush

    how much does the river card change things

    I call, but I am bit stationish )


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  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited August 2012
    i think the most optimal play would be to fold turn....i could never do this personally with the K of diamonds.

    river is snap fold imo.

    villain opened utg, cbet the flop with 4 way action, barrelled turn, barrelled river.  you're not ahead often enough here to make calling +ev
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  • dieddied Member Posts: 63
    edited August 2012
    Just fold pre and save yourself the best part of 7 quid
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  • DrRunGoodDrRunGood Member Posts: 436
    edited August 2012
    pre you got to reraise with this hand because so many time you get a flop like this so pre for me its raise or fold.
    my experiance with pokerkinga is he will fire fire fire if you dont hit back so tbh you may have had him beat but because you call down you never really sure i would put him on ak/aq with the ace diamonds more pos that it was aq going by river bet.
    but again on the flop reraise chances are your ahead here you may see him fold if he comes over the top you know there and then that he aint going away.
    you calling £4 on the turn so if you use £3 on the flop to reraise if he just calls and checks turn i then shove on him and that i think would have been only way to win this hand
    i also think you should be thankful the diamond never came as i think he would have had you beat
    call on the turn is you gambling to hit the diamond i would never make this call if i wasnt prepared to allin either here or on river (think to yourself what are you wanting on river? for all you know you may be dead in the hand)
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  • DiscectomyDiscectomy Member Posts: 8
    edited August 2012
    Passive Play kills.

    (3rd post of yours Ive responded to and all 3 are unanimous in feedback from others re passive play - major weakness?)

    Fold preflop (you are dominated by just about everything others may have called with)

    Or 3 Bet preflop to at least thin the field and get info and the betting lead.

    Too passive resulting in being dominated on betting and chasing cards, never a good spot.
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