All Categories› The Poker Clinic

You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Over Shove River for Value?

Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
edited September 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Thoughts please... good spot to over-shove for value? I think villian definitely calls with tons of worse Ax hands here... just happened to walk into the old 38s... any thoughts on the whole hand?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
walter1959 Sit out        
Lambert180 Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £4.17
diostam11 Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £3.46
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • K
     
longman912 Call   £0.04 £0.10 £0.49
tc99 Call   £0.04 £0.14 £6.40
Avro Call   £0.04 £0.18 £3.33
Lambert180 Raise   £0.20 £0.38 £3.97
diostam11 Call   £0.18 £0.56 £3.28
longman912 Fold        
tc99 Fold        
Avro Call   £0.18 £0.74 £3.15
Flop
   
  • 2
  • 4
  • 5
     
Lambert180 Bet   £0.37 £1.11 £3.60
diostam11 Call   £0.37 £1.48 £2.91
Avro Call   £0.37 £1.85 £2.78
Turn
   
  • 4
     
Lambert180 Check        
diostam11 Check        
Avro Check        
River
   
  • A
     
Lambert180 All-in   £3.60 £5.45 £0.00
diostam11 All-in   £2.91 £8.36 £0.00
Avro Fold        
Lambert180 Unmatched bet   £0.69 £7.67 £0.69
Lambert180 Show
  • A
  • K
     
diostam11 Show
  • 3
  • 8
     
diostam11 Win Straight to the 5 £7.09   £7.09
· Share on Twitter
«1

Comments

  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    Raise more pre as you're OOP 4x +1 for each limper £0.28

    Pot £0.92 Flop bet 2/3 £0.60

    Turn Shove

    Btn limp/calls so unless he's hit that board with some A2, A5, 22-33, 56, fd hand you're handing him a spanking if he always calls your turn shove on a draw at 2/1 odds.

    But you also have to follow this line when you do have made hands for it to play profitably as these spewtards will call you off with top pair weak kicker and draws etc.
    · Share on Twitter
  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    Raise more pre as you're OOP 4x +1 for each limper £0.28 Pot £0.92 Flop bet 2/3 £0.60 Turn Shove Btn limp/calls so unless he's hit that board with some A2, A5, 22-33, 56, fd hand you're handing him a spanking if he always calls your turn shove on a draw at 2/1 odds.
    Posted by DoubleAAA

    At these limits yes i would over shove the river will get called by random pairs alot.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited September 2012
    I'm never shoving the turn here with so little in the pot (even if I'd have raised more pre and c-bet). I just don't think I get folds enough to combine with my probable 10 outs to make it +EV.
    · Share on Twitter
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    Raise more pre as you're OOP 4x +1 for each limper £0.28 Pot £0.92 Flop bet 2/3 £0.60 Turn Shove Btn limp/calls so unless he's hit that board with some A2, A5, 22-33, 56, fd hand you're handing him a spanking if he always calls your turn shove on a draw at 2/1 odds. But you also have to follow this line when you do have made hands for it to play profitably as these spewtards will call you off with top pair weak kicker and draws etc.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    Yeah shoving turn is awesome
    · Share on Twitter
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    I'm never shoving the turn here with so little in the pot (even if I'd have raised more pre and c-bet). I just don't think I get folds enough to combine with my probable 10 outs to make it +EV.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Look at there stack sizes it's a pot size bet that puts them virtually all in and if you follow this line you'll also get called when you have your made hands.
    · Share on Twitter
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value? : Yeah shoving turn is awesome
    Posted by grantorino
    Are you agreeing with me or being sarcastic lol
    · Share on Twitter
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited September 2012
    Their stack sizes are irrelevant if I don't have the equity though. On the turn I have (probably) 10 outs, so about 20% chance of hitting... there is no way on earth I'm getting folds anywhere near the amount I need to make this +EV

    And I don't think you need to make these kinda -EV plays to help you get paid off at this level, because people will pay you off anyway lol.
    · Share on Twitter
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value? : Are you agreeing with me or being sarcastic lol
    Posted by DoubleAAA
     I'm pretty drunk but I am prob being sarcastic
    · Share on Twitter
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value? :  I'm pretty drunk but I am prob being sarcastic
    Posted by grantorino

    haha :)
    · Share on Twitter
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    Their stack sizes are irrelevant if I don't have the equity though. On the turn I have (probably) 10 outs, so about 20% chance of hitting... there is no way on earth I'm getting folds anywhere near the amount I need to make this +EV And I don't think you need to make these kinda -EV plays to help you get paid off at this level, because people will pay you off anyway lol.
    Posted by Lambert180
    So do you take this same line on the turn when you have a made hand or do you always bet it?
    · Share on Twitter
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value? : So do you take this same line on the turn when you have a made hand or do you always bet it?
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    I doubt it but he is playing 4nl so who cares whether he plays it the same

    Looks pretty stupid when you shove and get snapped by A2
    · Share on Twitter
  • Curt360x27Curt360x27 Member Posts: 490
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value?:
    In Response to Re: Over Shove River for Value? : So do you take this same line on the turn when you have a made hand or do you always bet it?
    Posted by DoubleAAA

    I think your missing the point. We bet the turn when we have the hand and check when we don't. Being balanced doesn't matter at this level. 

    · Share on Twitter
  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited September 2012
    Bet biger pre. 28-32p.

    Dont mind half pot c-bet but i probably make it a tad bigger, turn is fine. River at NL4 i probably either bet-fold 1/2 pot or even check-call depending on aggression levels of villain. Even at NL4 i dont like the overshove on such a wet board, its quite possible with all that limp calling, or calling from BB, that all sorts of rubbish can turn up on the end.
    · Share on Twitter
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    this hand is too spewy imo. I'm not cbetting at nl4 with 2 players behind on this flop, theyre never folding any pair, any draw, they'll probz call with 2 overs. I probs b/f river, I suppose you might get called with a worse A but sometimes you'll be beat too. I like bf
    · Share on Twitter
  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited September 2012
    Yeah, see what you mean percival, its close. Probably read dependant but checking flop is ok as is a c-bet before slowing down. Im definitely not c-betting in to any more players.
    · Share on Twitter
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    anyone think it's weird how I sometimes use 'probz' and sometimes 'probs' ?
    · Share on Twitter
  • DrSharpDrSharp Member Posts: 1,213
    edited September 2012
    I do now!
    · Share on Twitter
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    Yes you guys are right at 4NL is best just to bet your made hands and check your missed hands in multiway pots as they're not folding anything.  That's what happens when I post late at night :(

    So with that being said, raise more pre as you want to charge the callers as much as you possibly can, chk flop & turn, b/call river as they may raise you with a weak A.
    · Share on Twitter
  • WilhelmWilhelm Member Posts: 1,730
    edited September 2012
    I would never overshove the river on such a wet board.  B/f probably best.  The stack to pot ratio makes things difficult.  Maybe c/c or c/f is better.  I'm not sure.

    Fwiw I would make it 24p pre and I don't mind betting or checking the flop.

    I like the check on the turn.
    · Share on Twitter
  • u_sud_foldu_sud_fold Member Posts: 39
    edited September 2012
    b fold river


    · Share on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.