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DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?

rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
edited September 2012 in The Poker Clinic

Down to last 18 in DTD3 with just 13 bbs - utg 5 handed, stacks short and basically it's an all-in fest. With this in mind could Iget away with min-raise here (showing real strength) and hope to nick sizeable blinds? I would still have 11bbs if I get shoved on. Or is it simply just a push/fold strategy? Thing is I was also gonna be the next BB, so I thought bang it in.
If I push (which I believed to be the best option at time) I was only gonna get called by better.And I did!
I had pushed twice before this with AA and KK hoping for calls with my less than 10bbs stack, hoping some-one would look me up thinking I was pushing light. But as I said all the stacks were relatively shallow, so tight play was the order of the day at that time. Hence me thinking min raise may well have been best strategy, even tho my stack says NO!
What would be the opinion?
Hand History #559858214 (23:17 03/09/2012)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceMRBURNS4Small blind 600.00600.0018320.00LlamasBig blind 1200.001800.0011740.00 Your hole cardsJA   rusty762All-in 15787.5017587.500.00archdiggerFold    TsaaaarAll-in 16752.5034340.000.00MRBURNS4Fold    LlamasFold    TsaaaarUnmatched bet 965.0033375.00965.00rusty762ShowJA   TsaaaarShowAK   Flop  978   Turn  Q   River  2   TsaaaarWinAce high33375.00 34340.00
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  • Herbie536Herbie536 Member Posts: 80
    edited September 2012
    In Response to DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    Down to last 18 in DTD3 with just 12 bbs - utg 5 handed, stacks short and basically it's an all-in fest. With this in mind could Iget away with min-raise here (showing real strength) and hope to nick sizeable blinds? I would still have 10bbs if I get shoved on. Or is it simply just a push/fold strategy? Thing is I was also gonna be the next BB, so I thought bang it in. If I push (which I believed to be the best option at time) I was only gonna get called by better.And I did! I had pushed twice before this with AA and KK hoping for calls with my less than 10bbs stack, hoping some-one would look me up thinking I was pushing light. But as I said all the stacks were relatively shallow, so tight play was the order of the day at that time. Hence me thinking min raise may well have been best strategy, even tho my stack says NO! What would be the opinion? Hand History #559858214 (23:17 03/09/2012) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance MRBURNS4 Small blind   600.00 600.00 18320.00 Llamas Big blind   1200.00 1800.00 11740.00   Your hole cards J A       rusty762 All-in   15787.50 17587.50 0.00 archdigger Fold         Tsaaaar All-in   16752.50 34340.00 0.00 MRBURNS4 Fold         Llamas Fold         Tsaaaar Unmatched bet   965.00 33375.00 965.00 rusty762 Show J A       Tsaaaar Show A K       Flop     9 7 8       Turn     Q       River     2       Tsaaaar Win Ace high 33375.00   34340.00
    Posted by rusty762
    I reckon your play was automatic m8 in this instance, 13 big blinds is always a push job in my opinion and you just got unlucky running into AK, 9ties out of ten your in front here or at least in a race situation, the fact you were dominated was just unlucky and hey if a 10 comes on the river you give your caller a bad beat lol
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    I'm not raise folding 13bb, especially from utg. 

    Shove or fold, and with AJ I shove
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    5 handed, 13bbs, what are you waiting for? Im smiling looking down at this hand and throwing my chips into the middle!

    You can NEVER raise/fold in this situation, if you do then you will be so easy to exploit and limping is just terrible.

    Question for you, what range would you be prepared to shove in this scenario? and if you were in the blinds with there stacks, what range would you be prepared to call with?
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    controversial but I fold this UTG with 13 bigs

    sounds bizarre but no one will call with worse in this, may aswell shove 72 UTG - at least you will have 40% equity when called )
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    controversial but I fold this UTG with 13 bigs sounds bizarre but no one will call with worse in this, may aswell shove 72 UTG - at least you will have 40% equity when called )
    Posted by rancid
    What would you be shoving utg?
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold? : What would you be shoving utg?
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    AA/KK maybe AK/QQ
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited September 2012
    Its an automatic allin
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  • cenachavcenachav Member Posts: 2,682
    edited September 2012
    You need to be consistant.  As you shoved AA and KK before then you have to shove this.  Personally I prefer a min raise in this stiuation with 13 bb.  10 or less then its an auto shove.  The main thing is you need to be consistant.  That way you are much harder to read and exploit
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold? : AA/KK maybe AK/QQ
    Posted by rancid
    wow only the top 4% of hands. So you wouldn't want to open TT-JJ, AQ as you will be called by 88+, AT+
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    You need to be consistant.  As you shoved AA and KK before then you have to shove this.  Personally I prefer a min raise in this stiuation with 13 bb.  10 or less then its an auto shove.  The main thing is you need to be consistant.  That way you are much harder to read and exploit
    Posted by cenachav
    Correct, follow the line that you have been taking.
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  • rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    You need to be consistant.  As you shoved AA and KK before then you have to shove this.  Personally I prefer a min raise in this stiuation with 13 bb.  10 or less then its an auto shove.  The main thing is you need to be consistant.  That way you are much harder to read and exploit
    Posted by cenachav
    You are dead right of course Cenachav, and that is why I chose the option I did. The 2 previous occasions when I had 1st/2nd nuts pre it would have looked just too obvious to the players at my table (who I believed were fairly decent) if I had just min -raised out of such a short stack (less than10bb), so I really had to follow the same line. Having said that they did not know I pushed AA and KK previously! AA was open shove from button, and KK was utg! So maybe AJ min raise would have looked more deadly to the table? Either way it was gonna get shoved on by AK! Just a shame I didn't have the bullets!
    thanks for your response mate
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  • rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited September 2012
    thanks guys for all your input.. really very much appreciated, and noted. tyvm
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  • rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    controversial but I fold this UTG with 13 bigs sounds bizarre but no one will call with worse in this, may aswell shove 72 UTG - at least you will have 40% equity when called )
    Posted by rancid
    Thanks for your comment Rancid... I have been known to fold this occasionally in key inflection points, so not too controversial I think , ...... I noticed my caller Tsaaar went onto finish 2nd and got a pretty nice cash..... So that one hand pretty much helped him on the way, as he only had 14bbs approx when he called and hence doubled up to a reasonable playing stack.
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  • RogueCellRogueCell Member Posts: 533
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold? : AA/KK maybe AK/QQ
    Posted by rancid
    Nice advertising pal....level
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited September 2012
    i would prob mr/decide depending on how villains have been playing

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold? : Nice advertising pal....level
    Posted by RogueCell

    mmmm ) But if the advo works and no one calls my UTG shove because they think I have AA/KK only -
    I never get value from shoving other hands that get called by worse :S

    So maybe I need to re think this and maybe advo that I shove a very wide range UTG with 13 bigs.

    So yeah I shove A2+ K8+ 33+UTG with 13 bigs - rock on !

    AJ UTG IS THE NUTS

    But seriously no one calls light in the DTD, they all waiting for the nuts = controversial !


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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    i would prob mr/decide depending on how villains have been playing
    Posted by LOL_RAISE

    don't think min raise/decide is tera bad - but with blinds coming through us I don't love it we going to be dropping 3 n a half bb if we min raise fold and blinds come though :S

    m/r is prob best actually

    oppos on this table only call shove or shove on our m/r with better imo

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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    lol rancid saying he would fold this haha its automatic 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU

    I am serious about folding ) but I like lol_raise m/r decide line best )

    unless he talking about some geezer called mr/decide - sometimes I not so down with the street lingo !
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited September 2012
    @ Rancid, I think AA/KK is a bit too wide, Personally you should just wait for AA before you shove. :)
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  • rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: DTD3 last 3 tables- shove/fold?:
    i would prob mr/decide depending on how villains have been playing
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    think I am liking this line due to table dynamic at time, and I know one shouldn't be result orientated blah blah etc. but chip preservation would've been good when I do get shoved on. Or, I just take it down, if they have nothing to play with.
    thanks again for your post
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