Bad fold by me - What it the best decision over time (bounty hunter)

spurs_13

I only know I made the wrong decision after the turn and river - Is the correct decision to always call?

1Small blind 75.0075.002971.25spurs_13Big blind 150.00225.0010517.00 Your hole cards99   andrew1947Fold    timeforbedFold    2Raise 300.00525.001025.00The_CanaryFold    1Call 225.00750.002746.25spurs_13Call 150.00900.0010367.00Flop  10J8   1Check    spurs_13Check    2All-in 1025.001925.000.001Raise 2050.003975.00696.25spurs_13Fold   

diablo_pez

Fold.

But then, I always fold.

Lambert180

Hmm, this is a tough one, You can disregard player 2 with his shortstack you're calling him all day long, but when player 1 raises it's very likely you're behind and drawing to 3 Qs, 3 7s and 2 9s, so 8 outs and you can't be sure how many of them are clean outs. Even if he's just trying to isolate the shorty with TP or even 2nd pr, you're not in fantastic shape.

By the looks of it, he still has nearly 7k after his raise to 2k, so if u get it in and lose you're gonna be left with about 1k.

I probably re-jam and then sigh when I get left with a bowl. I think there are a fair few hands he would try to isolate here with where he folds to a jam.

grantorino

Clear jam pre imo, or obv u could 3b/c, assuming you are readless

EvilPingu

3bet jam pre.

percival09

In Response to Re: Bad fold by me - What it the best decision over time (bounty hunter):

Hmm, this is a tough one, You can disregard player 2 with his shortstack you're calling him all day long, but when player 1 raises it's very likely you're behind and drawing to 3 Qs, 3 7s and 2 9s, so 8 outs and you can't be sure how many of them are clean outs. Even if he's just trying to isolate the shorty with TP or even 2nd pr, you're not in fantastic shape. By the looks of it, he still has nearly 7k after his raise to 2k, so if u get it in and lose you're gonna be left with about 1k. I probably re-jam and then sigh when I get left with a bowl. I think there are a fair few hands he would try to isolate here with where he folds to a jam.
Posted by Lambert180

doesnt he only have 696 chips behind? u sure its in the thousands? look at his stack pre

Lambert180

Ah you're right Perc, I thought there was a digit missing off the end cos we've missed the side of the HH so thought it was 696x chips.

In that case, I snap jam pre, and I stick him in post flop even though I need to hit.

percival09

agree.

but if he did have 7k behind or w.e you thought, then I don't think jamming is good at all - would be a pretty easy fold imo

NColley

In Response to Re: Bad fold by me - What it the best decision over time (bounty hunter):

Clear jam pre imo, or obv u could 3b/c, assuming you are readless
Posted by grantorino

this ainec

bounty hunter w/ massive stack, chance of 2 heads..

Mohican

In Response to Re: Bad fold by me - What it the best decision over time (bounty hunter):

Clear jam pre imo, or obv u could 3b/c, assuming you are readless
Posted by grantorino

^^^^^^this.

grantorino

I think as played this would be a spot where bounties and stacks turn what might be a fold into a call

pr1nnyraid

In Response to Re: Bad fold by me - What it the best decision over time (bounty hunter):

I think as played this would be a spot where bounties and stacks turn what might be a fold into a call
Posted by grantorino

I disagree i think this is a definite fold as played.. 

There are likely blockers out there and other 9's that you can pretty much only chop with. Even though it's a bh you can't overestimate the value of having people covered deeper in the tournament (when scalps are worth 100-400% more). Don't let relatively early head prizes influence a -ev decision. 

Calling and losing here is a disaster and we probably go from covering ~95% of stacks to covering ~60%. I'd just keep looking to get it in good regardless of bh format there will be better spots to stack people.. 

grantorino

In Response to Re: Bad fold by me - What it the best decision over time (bounty hunter):

In Response to Re: Bad fold by me - What it the best decision over time (bounty hunter) : I disagree i think this is a definite fold as played..  There are likely blockers out there and other 9's that you can pretty much only chop with. Even though it's a bh you can't overestimate the value of having people covered deeper in the tournament (when scalps are worth 100-400% more). Don't let relatively early head prizes influence a -ev decision.  Calling and losing here is a disaster and we probably go from covering ~95% of stacks to covering ~60%. I'd just keep looking to get it in good regardless of bh format there will be better spots to stack people.. 
Posted by pr1nnyraid

Well I don't really know the answer to true how to adjust in bh questions, but making no adjustments sounds a bit absurd when half the prize pool is bounties and 75% of each bounty can't be won by us everytime someone else knocks out a player

This is going to be a -EV call on flop, I think, as it's so rare we are ahead of both or that our 10 possible outs are all clean. But I'm not so sure dropping from 70bb to 50bb is such a disaster, and when we win the pot we pick up 75% of a buyin (at least). We need ~37% equity to make the call based on pure chip EV, we prob have at least 25% often maybe just over 30%. I don't know do the bounties make up for the -cEV call, but it seems reasonable to me that the bounties should be a factor in our decision

spurs_13

Thanls all for your insight - Poker is such a great game and you can never stop learning

spurs_13

Oh and just to let you all know........ a Queen came on the turn and I would have both hands crushed although I am beggining to understand that we cant be results orientated after the fact.

If it helps the discussion and I should have added this info at the start, I had a good read on opponen 1 as he shoved constantly when hittin top pair so I confidently put him on a Jack (had got him pegged cpl times already in same situation). Opponent 2 was a very loose aggressive and had already shown he was prepared to bet with almost any 2.

Maybe in this instance, with the table dynamics and a little knowledge of both opps I should have shoved as well and taken my chance. Cards pretty much dried up after that and all went downhill from there lol

percival09

as you can see from the above posts both fold and getting it in are ok really, both have their merits. The mistake you made in the hand was pre... you should be always shoving vs those 2 stacks