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Crash & Burn with QQ - cooler or badly played (by me)

luvBWFCluvBWFC Member Posts: 763
edited September 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Should I have folded to the 4 bet pre? Should I push pre to the 4 bet? Given that i saw the flop is the push ok here?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
luvBWFC Small blind  £0.04 £0.04 £8.11
BB Big blind  £0.08 £0.12 £5.65
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
     
s1 Fold     
V Raise  £0.40 £0.52 £16.49
s3 Call  £0.40 £0.92 £6.64
luvBWFC Raise  £1.32 £2.24 £6.79
s1Fold     
VRaise  £3.12 £5.36 £13.37
s3 Fold     
luvBWFC Call  £2.16 £7.52 £4.63
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 2
  • 4
     
luvBWFC All-in  £4.63 £12.15 £0.00
V Call  £4.63 £16.78 £8.74
luvBWFC Show
  • Q
  • Q
   
V Show
  • A
  • A
   
Turn
   
  • 4
     
River
   
  • K
     
V Win Two Pairs, Aces and 4s £15.52  £24.26
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Comments

  • gracie24gracie24 Member Posts: 227
    edited September 2012
    A cooler. Every time someone raises it would be wrong to assume A's in all cases -unless u know their range.
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    If you're going to call the 4b pre and get it in on a low flop you may as well just get it in pre flop imo. Fold or shove to his 4bet. I don't really like 3b/f but if you're certain he's only getting it in with KK/AA then you should fold. 
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited September 2012
    ugh, not a fan of flatting 4bets oop, get it in pre or fold.

    why are you lead jamming flop? you just gave villian an opportunity to fold all hands that you beat.
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  • luvBWFCluvBWFC Member Posts: 763
    edited September 2012
    the thinking would be along the lines of wanting to get him off his AK type hands, there's plenty in the pot already and if I am ahead I want to make him pay to outdraw me
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    You want his AK to bet so you can get more value - you're only getting called by better when you shove. 
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    Theoretically speaking you shouldn't 3b/f qq. Either 3b/shove or flat the open

    However people prob call 3bets so wide and 4bet so narrow at 8nl 3b/f might be ok. Hate flatting the 4bet. Hate flop lead even more.  C/c flop
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  • PipunchPipunch Member Posts: 516
    edited September 2012
    Fold pre
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited September 2012
    As other's said it's shove or fold pre, and for me it's the shove, unless it's one of the people who are massive nits.

    Also don't shove the flop, you might get value from JJ but you'd get that anyway by checking. Shoving the flop means you get called by everything that beats you, which doesn't change much because if you'd called pre, you're stacking off v AA/KK anway (otherwise you should have folded pre). So the result of the hand is already pretty much decided if he has JJ-AA, the only thing that isn't decided is if more money goes in when it's AK... shoving makes him fold, checking and you probably get more.

    EDIT: Forget that thought in your head saying the pot is big enough, the pot is never big enough if you're a favourite. If he has AK, then you want him to get the rest of his stack in on the flop, sometimes he'll bink his A or K, but it's more profitable this way.
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