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Is this bad by me?

profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
edited September 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Hi Guys,
Just back from Woogies league...help needed. What should my betting have been?...we're both bottom 4 of 13 left.
Was betting wrong. Turn bet, half pot ....expected/prayed for rer to push me off pot. I was all in then.
Could bigger bet on turn have pushed him off? I'm surprised he played to the end with the hand TBH without AI'ing so expected he had one pr and fishing for another. I knew he wouldn't have the Ace or wouldve rer pre. I wanted value for the hand so wanted him in pot. Back-fired i suppose...what should i have done/considered?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceprofman15Small blind 200.00200.005305.00&&&
Big blind 400.00600.006099.00 Your hole cards10J   brian243Fold    stickler10Fold    profman15Call 200.00800.005105.00&&&
Check    Flop  AJ7   profman15Bet 400.001200.004705.00&&&
Call 400.001600.005699.00Turn  10   profman15Bet 800.002400.003905.00&&&
Call 800.003200.004899.00River  9   profman15All-in 3905.007105.000.00&&&
Call 3905.0011010.00994.00profman15Show10J   &&&
Show87   &&&
WinStraight to the Jack11010.00 12004.00
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Comments

  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    Raise pre. 

    I probs bet like 1400 otr or something and sigh call a shove. 
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    Raise pre

    Bet turn bigger to set up river jam
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  • sighcallsighcall Member Posts: 497
    edited September 2012
    Short answer : yes

    Long answer : Fold or rasie pre, by calling you allow any old junk to see a free flop.

    Bet flop (bigger as pot is inflated)

    Get in on turn : you ahve a premium hand this short
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    making up versus bb isn't that bad if you think you can outplay oppo post flop, but it's like the hardest thing to do in poker imo

    fold or raise small, play post flop pokerz

    as played
    prefer a check on flop - bet turn

    probably ends the same but it's a very easy river to b/f or even c/f or going the other way it could be a great river for you to bet big

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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid Member Posts: 495
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this bad by me?:
    Raise pre Bet turn bigger to set up river jam
    Posted by grantorino
    If we raise pre.. say to 2.5x as we are oop, are we calling the jam?? If we get flatted stacks are awkward to play post flop.

    The people saying raise or fold pre i think that isnt correct, unless bb is aggro then limping J10s is fine spesh with these stacks. J10s is too tighter fold from the BB. 
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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid Member Posts: 495
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this bad by me?:
    im raising pre then u win as opponent would fold pre  if opponent calls gd flop to rep an ace  the way u played it dnt make sense to have an ace as u didnt raise pre so i would check flop bet the turn think u need to bet bigger the bets are to smaller and letting opponent get there cheap 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Some weird non sensicle comments.. 

    How on earth do you know oppo is folding pre.. that's a mental statement.
    Why 'rep' an ace when you have 2nd pair?? essentially turning your hand into a bluff. 

    1/2 pot with 2nd pair on the flop is fine. 1/2 pot with 2pr on the turn is okay for value, maybe bet a little more though so you can get stack in on river without overbet. 

    River shove is a bit weird on that board.. in some ways i realy like it, in terms of it looking bluffy and you cant beat the bluff catchers like single aces or any 1pr hands.. BUT as i dont think you did it for those reasons i really hate it, you are getting snapped off by an 8 so often. Im presuming your thought process was like "oh £$"£$uck what a S h * t river, hmmm i REALLY dont want to get bluffed here so i best put my stack in to stop him bluffing, yeah he'll prob fold lets do that"


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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    fwiw I think open shoving pre is fine. No antes to pick up sucks but we can't raise call w/ J10s and 13bb and being in a pot post flop is awkward oop w/ stack size. So I think shoving would be ok.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited September 2012
    Gotta get out of the habit of limping Profman, thought you learnt your lesson after that AA hand in the roller lol.

    So min-raise pre.

    I bet 50-60% pot on the flop, as played probably 450.

    Again, little bit more on the turn, as played probably 950

    If you'd raised more pre, flop and turn, then it's probably already all-in or as good as by the river, but as  played, I'd probably go smaller to get calls from the weaker hands in his range. Don't worry too much about him outdrawing you, the main problem IMO is the fact you limped pre. After that, the villian made the mistakes and you'll make alot of money/chips from him all the times he keeps calling and doesn't make trips/str8s on the river.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited September 2012
    He doesn't need to rep an A though, cos he has the J, so the only hands he's not beating where 'repping the Ace' would be ahead is KQ/KJ.
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited September 2012
    I just look at my hand and the effective stacks and ship it pre 

    job done




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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    Yeah misread stacks, I just jam pre, really dont like limping

    Idcu, doubt you get floated and raised on turn light much 12bb deep, villain can't rep an A either
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  • profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
    edited September 2012
    Cracking replies guys and lots of food fr thought.
    Yea, stop limping! Must admit my ss and hand made me a little conservative...i agree silly.
    Would you feel like shipping with this hand as caller would be defo ahead to call?
    If i raised and villain rer ai should i feel obliged to call w/ this hand as t does play well doesn't it?
    Personally i seem to take too long to make a move...lesson learnt guys...cheers....
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited September 2012
    Yeah it looks like it's a shove or fold pre-flop with this stack. When it's folded to you in the small blind there is only one player left to get through and the value of the pot is around 11% of your stack. If you're called, JT is very unlikely to be ahead but it doesn't play badly at all against the big blind's calling range.

    The shove is probably best because it will get through so often. If it only gets through half the time it's still going to be profitable in the long-term... and it's likely to get through much more often than that.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    Going to go against everyone and say don't shove - with no antes - wait for a betetr spot

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  • rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this bad by me?:
    Going to go against everyone and say don't shove - with no antes - wait for a betetr spot
    Posted by rancid
    aint much time to wait for better spots with 13bb. You need to shove +ev. His stack makes his call range top 5% hands
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