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50NL Line check

grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
edited September 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Not at table long, pretty much readless on villain, but he's been pretty quiet, definitely not a maniac

Comments on all streets pls, esp river
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
SBSmall blind  £0.25 £0.25 £49.75
grantorino Big blind  £0.50 £0.75 £49.50
 Your hole cards
  • A
  • J
   
UTGFold     
MPRaise  £1.50 £2.25 £46.04
CO Fold     
BTN Fold     
SB Fold     
grantorino Call  £1.00 £3.25 £48.50
Flop
  
  • 3
  • 7
  • 2
   
grantorino Check     
MP Bet  £1.63 £4.88 £44.41
grantorino Call  £1.63 £6.51 £46.87
Turn
  
  • 4
   
grantorino Check     
MP Bet  £2.50 £9.01 £41.91
grantorino Raise  £7.00 £16.01 £39.87
MP Call  £4.50 £20.51 £37.41
River
  
  • J
   
grantorino Bet  £10.26 £30.77 £29.61

Comments

  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited September 2012
    your notes say villain is not getting out of line too much then when they open utg+1 and cbet a low board you're floating the flop oop with A high?
    then reraising the turn oop with A high?


    as played bet/fold river.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited September 2012
    looks ok to me

    b/f river
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check:
    your notes say villain is not getting out of line too much then when they open utg+1 and cbet a low board you're floating the flop oop with A high? then reraising the turn oop with A high? as played bet/fold river.
    Posted by huuuuume
    I'm pretty much readless on villain

    If I'm not floating or raising flop sometimes I think I should prob fold pre. 

    When I floated flop my plan was to raise most turns. That may well be bad, esp on that turn.

  • huuuuumehuuuuume Member Posts: 569
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check:
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check : I'm pretty much readless on villain If I'm not floating or raising flop sometimes I think I should prob fold pre.  When I floated flop my plan was to raise most turns. That may well be bad, esp on that turn.
    Posted by grantorino
    both the hands you have posted simply emphasise how important position is.  playing oop is putting you in difficult spots.

    on this hand i think you invest a lot of money to protect the original £1 your call cost you.  you don't have to win every hand so check/fold flop imo
  • TPTP123TPTP123 Member Posts: 492
    edited September 2012
    lol this could easily be a hand i played!! 

    The line your repping is immensly strong but i think you need a very specific reason with showdown history and know how the villain plays turns and rivers IP before getting stubbord with strong blind defending hands like this, check/calling river to allow him to bet overpairs we beat as played is an option but w/o any info or history his obv not going to be doing this as often as we would like. 

    Many players are just sitting tight and playing very abc poker at 50nl and very face up, and doing okay imo.  You just don't need to overplay AJ like this on turn an river against someone who has been quiet and not confrontational. 

    That said, its excellent prep for playing AJ OOP at higher levels against villains you know will get out of line... but against someone who is quiet I am happy just c/f flop or just calling 1 street if we know that all of villains air is being cbet on flop IP.  
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    God GT, why u playing on sky now? Is it cos IDCU said he doesnt respect your opinion cos you don't play on the site? Man up yh? 3b pre cos it's good to do that readless. 

    fwiw I probs fold otf readless... don't get stubborn now. 
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check:
    God GT, why u playing on sky now? Is it cos IDCU said he doesnt respect your opinion cos you don't play on the site? Man up yh? 3b pre cos it's good to do that readless.  fwiw I probs fold otf readless... don't get stubborn now. 
    Posted by percival09
    now,now just cos idonk owned u hu :))

    3b pre is good why?
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited September 2012

    In position, I'm happy to float this flop. Out of position, with no hand and no draw, I just think floating is going to be -EV against all but the weakest of players - Those who just give up at the first sign of resistance and check down their air. It gives us a problem on the turn, since we almost always check again and he has all the options. When we check-raise, we're doing it into someone that's only shown consistent strength and when he checks behind, too often it's just for pot control so our bluff is called on the river.

    I also don't like the raise size on the turn. He's calling this bet with any pair or draw because it is pretty small. Admittedly, that should look stronger to an experienced player but the odds you're laying are so good that he won't fold much at all. I also don't know what hands that 4 is going to allow you to represent having called on the flop. A5? Would you really raise here with just top pair or 88-TT? Otherwise you're representing a set, which is not an easy thing to convince someone of.

    The river: You've probably just made the best hand. The value bet size seems fine. Can't see any hands that he raises with here other than overpairs or possibly sets, so it's a bet-fold. Feel silly when he calls with QQ+. Of course, after your small raise on the turn you're probably committed to bet the river almost regardless of whether it's a good card or not. How would you be betting here if you'd missed?

    So the basic questions would be:
    i) Why float the flop out of position against someone who appears reasonably
    solid? At least, you don't have reads to say otherwise.
    ii) Why raise so small on the turn?

  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited September 2012
    we could always consider the other river card options and how we play those to help us judge our turn line.
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check:
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check : now,now just cos idonk owned u hu :)) 3b pre is good why?
    Posted by grantorino
    Now you have money on sky (presuming you didnt lose it all like the fish u r) you wanna play 20nl hu sometime??
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check:
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check : Now you have money on sky (presuming you didnt lose it all like the fish u r) you wanna play 20nl hu sometime??
    Posted by percival09
    Stop bumhunting, percival. :)
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check:
    In Response to Re: 50NL Line check : Stop bumhunting, percival. :)
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Too true, I truly suck at hu, even more than at other forms of poker
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited September 2012
    awwww come on. Like i'm any good, like srsli.
  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited September 2012
    Pre, can I flat and just play fit or fold properly

    Flop, I very rarely float oop, but I thought it might be ok here given raising looks slightly fos. Obv I can just fold. Not sure what hands he is going to pot control on turn

    Turn, well I called to make a move on turn. Think I rep a set ok. If I reversed this thread I bet I would be told to fold nearly all my range on turn.i know villain is unknown, but it's 50nl, he prob has some idea what he's doin

    River I bluff most rivers, wasn't sure if vbetting this one was a bit thin given action
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited September 2012
    I'm not sure you need to just play fit or fold poker, but if you're going to be making moves I think you need a wet flop to go bluffing on. So when the flop comes really dry like this you probably should just give it up.

    The difficulty in your turn raise is that too often people don't fold overpairs to small raises. Obviously if you follow that up with a big bet on the river it's going to be difficult for him but you only have to look at how many people post on the clinic with overpairs when they've been check-raised on the turn. How often do they actually fold? lol

    So yes, you can represent the set but you want to be representing a broader range than that. On this board, you're only likely to have a set or air.

    "...it's 50Nl, he prob has some idea what he's doin" Hmmmm...

    The river value bet is a little thin, I think, but I'd do it. You can check-call but I doubt he bets many hands that you beat after you check-raise the turn. I'm thinking he probably calls a bet with 88, 99, TT or maybe something like A7. He could easily turn over JJ, QQ, KK or AA of course... I suspect you'd bluff most rivers bigger than this, so maybe that's what you should do if you think his range is weighted towards those big overpairs.
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