Trying to resteal far from the money....ok?

profman15

Hi guys

Got low (set v set) and looking to steal/double up. This was a passive table at times and this opportunity presented itself. I thought my csi was high enough to prevent the call. Was this a bad move? I was fairly sure i'd have two live cards( so have min 34% equity) and any reraises i'd made had been shown to be strong at showdown. I didn't expect the call after the min raise TBH...silly or not?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancerainman397Small blind 100.00100.003115.84profman15Big blind 200.00300.002146.26 Your hole cards87   MylenaCall 200.00500.0017663.32drylinerCall 200.00700.006354.58Mr_No_LuckFold    £££
Raise 400.001100.009640.00rainman397Fold    profman15All-in 2146.263246.260.00MylenaFold    drylinerFold    £££
Call 1946.265192.527693.74profman15Show87   £££
ShowJQ   Flop  J25   Turn  10   River  2   £££
WinTwo Pairs, Jacks and 2s5192.52 12886.26

grantorino

It's ok, depends on reads, esp btn

Glenelg

"Got low (set v set) "

I'm not sure what this means?  Have you post the correct hand? 87?  Really? I think you can wait another orbit?

NColley

Is villain really gonna ever fold when they minraise after 2 limps?

I think not

percival09

It isn't bad but I doubt guy otb is gonna fold, I suppose even if he calls you'll probs be in ok shape but meh. I probs wait until it's unopened and shove quite a wide range in late position

Lambert180

I think you have very little FE given your stack and the fact someone has min-raised the limpers. When it gets back to him, he has to call 1600 to win 3200 so is getting very tasty odds for calling a 10xBB shove.

You should probably wait for an unopened pot.

profman15

In Response to Re: Trying to resteal far from the money....ok?:

" Got low (set v set) " I'm not sure what this means?  Have you post the correct hand? 87?  Really? I think you can wait another orbit?
Posted by Glenelg

HI G i was stating how i'd got low ie i had a set and ran into another. Which seems to have been my lot  in 5 T's today (only once ahead going AI). I'm not liking this game and may have few days off to get my mojo back. Its funny how when the buzz isn't there , it can become a boring, frustrating game where its noone's fault but your own that you've lost but without enjoyment, i may as well not play it. I've just not had enough patience today and wasn't in the mood to look for it either. I need to stop before some poor soul sucks out with a bad call and feels my wrath. Cya guys........genuinely GL at the tables. .....

profman15

In Response to Re: Trying to resteal far from the money....ok?:

Is villain really gonna ever fold when they minraise after 2 limps? I think not
Posted by NColley

Hi N...Seems not eh?
However it was a very passive table. the min raise imo didn't represent anything particularly strong and i thought a very big reraise would push himawa or give me a 40:60 chance as i doubted he'd have TT+ with just the min raise so expected AJ at best. The play only has to work a certain percentage and if not can still win with twolive cards. Personally i think that it was a poor call. What did he expect to be playing. As you know some people just have fingers to close to the call button as its just easy and can lead to a fist pump!!! I know, i've dne it on three occasions today myself. Cheers for the input. You were right...he did call....i just don't think that the hand warranted a call.

profman15

In Response to Re: Trying to resteal far from the money....ok?:

I think you have very little FE given your stack and the fact someone has min-raised the limpers. When it gets back to him, he has to call 1600 to win 3200 so is getting very tasty odds for calling a 10xBB shove. You should probably wait for an unopened pot.
Posted by Lambert180

 HI L

Maybe but may i say that his odds were actually LESS than 1.7 to 1 so in fact he was not getting the odds recommended in articles i've seen r i'd not have shoved. As i say i expected from the bet made him to have a non premium hand certainly no pair. Possibly the only thing that pushed him was his stack size being comfortably off. I certainly wouldn't call with QJo for 1600 more after only investing a small amount. What would you have expeted me to haveif you were him? I just get the impression that the guy took a punt which is fair enough, i suppose. I need a rest from poker i think........cheers for your input...hope you don't mind me stating my case...feel free to tell me i've made an error in my thinking.cheers

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Trying to resteal far from the money....ok?:

In Response to Re: Trying to resteal far from the money....ok? : Hi N...Seems not eh? However it was a very passive table. the min raise imo didn't represent anything particularly strong and i thought a very big reraise would push himawa or give me a 40:60 chance as i doubted he'd have TT+ with just the min raise so expected AJ at best. The play only has to work a certain percentage and if not can still win with twolive cards. Personally i think that it was a poor call. What did he expect to be playing. As you know some people just have fingers to close to the call button as its just easy and can lead to a fist pump!!! I know, i've dne it on three occasions today myself. Cheers for the input. You were right...he did call....i just don't think that the hand warranted a call.
Posted by profman15

The problem is, you're too short stacked to be able to make him fold. I did say above that he has to call 1600 to win 3200 (4800 when he calls). So he only has to win about 33% of the time which is pretty easy v your range. He's way over 33% against any pair TT and down (which you'd shove), he's got 40% against any Ax or Kx that doesn't involve a Q or J, and he will be ahead of your hands like 87o

profman15

In Response to Re: Trying to resteal far from the money....ok?:

In Response to Re: Trying to resteal far from the money....ok? : The problem is, you're too short stacked to be able to make him fold. I did say above that he has to call 1600 to win 3200 (4800 when he calls). So he only has to win about 33% of the time which is pretty easy v your range. He's way over 33% against any pair TT and down (which you'd shove), he's got 40% against any Ax or Kx that doesn't involve a Q or J, and he will be ahead of your hands like 87o
Posted by Lambert180

HI L
Wow that was quick m8. Its still over 1900 to win 3000 not 1600 so we should use the correct odds. What did he think my range was i ask? I'd shown down,as i said, strong hands after reraising raises. Surely he should be think min 66+, ATs +,KJ+ AJ+ WHICH IS A 10% RANGE in which case his equity IS 32% against that. So i don't actually agree with that analysis as the pots odds don't give him 1 in three and the quity he should expect imo should be <=33%. It was deep stack and i was not down to 10 BB's ....this was intended as a resteal far from the money in which the opponent guesses your ranges and considers if he has the odds to call considering his equity against it. I took the chance his conservative raise after a limp would allow him to think i had something premium as there was 1000 chips sitting there. Didn't work but if i'd have been him, i'd have folded.
Hope your doing well in the dtd  L, i'm out of all three through lack of patience and running into sets....cheers

Lambert180

You had 2146 @ 100/200, so just under 11xBB and he's already put 2 in the pot (and w others have 1 in each). He may not have noticed your tight play and when I see a 10xBB shove and I don't know, I'd normally assume a much wider range than what you gave (and it should be wider IMO), something like 22+, JTs+, AT+, KJ+, maybe even some raggier Ax suited

profman15

Cheers L

thanks for your input. I'm probably just a little tired and found myself running into a couple of brick walls today. I'm probably trying too hard to justify the play. GL at the tables fella....i think i may give it a rest for a week then its Jamaica for two weeks so i'll probably have my love for the game back. i know i'm getting better at the analysis as a year ago i wouldn't have been cosidering what i do now but i can see there's a way to go and without patience the small errors get magnified.
 I get the impression a lot of players go through a fed up stage from time to time. It is only recreational for me so if i'm not enjoying then stop...simple. I've offered advice to them so i should take it myself, shouldn't i?

BorinLoner

I don't like our opponent's raise with QJ. He can never hope to make the limpers fold for this bet and he should be able to see that you have only 11BB behind him so must know that you can shove at any time. QJ isn't the sort of hand that he should want to get that many chips in with.

However, having made this raise to then fold for your shove would be terrible and you shouldn't expect him to. The fact is that any raiser can see your stack and should be prepared to get it in against you and therefore they should need a hand that they feel is strong enough to do that. You should know that. Since our opponent has only min-raised into two limpers we should think that it looks like they're desperate for action, so their range should be stronger in our eyes, not weaker. 

A stack of 11BB is not a 3-bet bluffing stack. We should forget about having any 3-bet fold equity once our stack drops below 15BB or so (except in some formats of sit and go's or satellites). At that point, nobody should ever be raising into us if they can't call for our stack.

Of course, that's not to say that they will never raise-fold for 11BB. Just that they shouldn't and you shouldn't expect them to unless you've seen it from them before.

profman15

Cheers Borin and all

Your posts have put very good points forward. TBH the fancy play was in my mind seeing the chips available. I was trying to persuade myself that the play was viable. And i suppose in some ways 40:60 isn't so bad when you feel that you need to take a chance soon.
Appreciate all your posts and they're certainly making me into a better player...cheers guys...i