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All or Nothing Spot
Red_King
Member Posts: 2,850
Hand from MTT today, short stack at this table, in BB with 66.
Facing four flat calls from bigger stacks with a small pair.
Hand ID #571987668
I only min raise for info, to see if anyone had a decent hand.
1: Is it worth just shoving pre-flop with this small pair?
I check post-flop for info, I'm calling any small bet on that flop.
2: Should I open min-bet here to inflate the pot, as I could be ahead?
I check the turn to evaluate oppo's next move, was really surprised by both.
3: So whats my play on the turn, I'm all-in and only beating two bluffs?
Facing four flat calls from bigger stacks with a small pair.
Hand ID #571987668
I only min raise for info, to see if anyone had a decent hand.
1: Is it worth just shoving pre-flop with this small pair?
I check post-flop for info, I'm calling any small bet on that flop.
2: Should I open min-bet here to inflate the pot, as I could be ahead?
I check the turn to evaluate oppo's next move, was really surprised by both.
3: So whats my play on the turn, I'm all-in and only beating two bluffs?
| Jussfold | Small blind | 100.00 | 100.00 | 10471.26 | |
| Red_King | Big blind | 200.00 | 300.00 | 4185.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| HAIRBEAR60 | Call | 200.00 | 500.00 | 8279.17 | |
| wrongguess | Call | 200.00 | 700.00 | 10395.00 | |
| SIXTYNINE | Call | 200.00 | 900.00 | 9090.00 | |
| temp118 | Call | 200.00 | 1100.00 | 18248.33 | |
| Jussfold | Fold | ||||
| Red_King | Raise | 400.00 | 1500.00 | 3785.00 | |
| HAIRBEAR60 | Call | 400.00 | 1900.00 | 7879.17 | |
| wrongguess | Call | 400.00 | 2300.00 | 9995.00 | |
| SIXTYNINE | Call | 400.00 | 2700.00 | 8690.00 | |
| temp118 | Call | 400.00 | 3100.00 | 17848.33 | |
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| Red_King | Check | ||||
| HAIRBEAR60 | Check | ||||
| wrongguess | Bet | 200.00 | 3300.00 | 9795.00 | |
| SIXTYNINE | Call | 200.00 | 3500.00 | 8490.00 | |
| temp118 | Fold | ||||
| Red_King | Call | 200.00 | 3700.00 | 3585.00 | |
| HAIRBEAR60 | Fold | ||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| Red_King | Check | ||||
| wrongguess | Bet | 3700.00 | 7400.00 | 6095.00 | |
| SIXTYNINE | Call | 3700.00 | 11100.00 | 4790.00 | |
| Red_King | |||||
Comments
I don't think you're ever gonna be ahead in this hand, from the action preflop there's probably someone with a K and lots of people with PPs (likely to be bigger than 66)
Being the shortie, I figured they all wanted to get heads-up with me,
but were not wanting to get too involved pre vs each other, hence the flatting.
The reason for the min-raise pre, Lambert180, was to see if any wanted to isolate,
by raising and committing me to shove or fold. (20BB is above minimum shoving range).
Not the greatest play there, lol, but when I got no takers, figured they wanted to see a flop.
I'm not really liking the flop, as K or two hearts are possible holdings, but I'll call the min bet.
When the 3rd K comes on the turn, I'm hoping they both check and I'll shove then,
figuring they can only call with a higher pair or a K, so the pot bet from both didn't make sense,
unless both have a pair or 2nd one has the K and is also looking for me to shove all-in.
This did not add-up going by the pre/post flop action and I'm putting them both on a big A.
If they had two pair or a set on the flop, then they should have bet more post flop.
Ultimately I made the crying call, only to be shocked to see their holdings. (The bigstack bullies)
Either way, it's really bad. What you end up doing is building a huge pot with a mediocre hand, out of position playing 5-ways to a flop. That's a list of terrible things for you.
If you shove pre-flop, the chances of it getting through are pretty good as none of your opponents have shown any strength at all. The value of the dead money in the pot is huge for you, as it's 25% of your stack and the number of times when you'll add that to your stack is going to make the shove extremely profitable in the long-term. Sometimes you'll be called and you'll be flipping for your stack and sometimes you'll be called and you'll be a big underdog but in the long-term the shove is likely to be profitable. Shoving into five opponents obviously makes it higher variance than into one or two, though.
The alternative to shoving is just checking and seeing a flop. That's perfectly fine and what most people would do. You're only really going to like a flop which contains a 6 but that's okay.
Making the small raise in the long run is going to cause you all sorts of problems. After they've all limped for 200, none of them is going to fold for another 400. When you say that you thought they would raise to isolate after those limps and your pre-flop raise, what reason did you have for thinking that they would do that? If they did raise it's likely to be terrible for you as virtually everytime someone limp-raises, they're doing it with a really strong hand.
Some of your notes are a bit confusing: If your opponents all wanted to play heads-up with you, why would you think they would limp in? If they're looking to get heads-up with the short stack the first limper would raise and after that first limper, none of the other players could possibly think that they're going to be playing heads-up with you if they limp themselves.
Also, this idea of "big stack bullies". Forget about that. In this hand the big stacks weren't bullying you because none of them actually raised, lol. Even if they had done, it's just a part of the game that having a big stack allows you to make plays that a small stack doesn't. Don't get caught up on the idea that people are just trying to bully you. It'll cause you to make mistakes, thinking your opponents are bluffing you when the action suggests otherwise.