10NL - Flopped set

Lambert180

What do you think of my play here?

Obv pre is standard.

Was really undecided about flatting or raising the flop because there were a few draws out there, but I also wanted to try to keep both players in.

Once I flat the flop and make the house, I'm not scared of any river so it must be correct to flat again and keep both players in knowing that the pot will be perfect for me to jam over someone or just open jam if it comes to me on the river?

One reason I was happier flatting as appose to raising was because I was IP so I knew there was no fear of ever getting a street checked round because I would always bet any street where it's checked to me.

On the river, is the only option to jam as planned? Or do you prefer a smaller V-bet?

Thoughts please?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
TINTIN	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£13.92
Grambo_67	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£3.60
	Your hole cards	5 5
snilloc12	Fold
elvisg1972	Raise		£0.30	£0.45	£19.59
docster	Call		£0.30	£0.75	£19.11
Lambert180	Call		£0.30	£1.05	£11.86
TINTIN	Fold
Grambo_67	Call		£0.20	£1.25	£3.40
Flop
		5 4 8
Grambo_67	Check
elvisg1972	Check
docster	Bet		£0.94	£2.19	£18.17
Lambert180	Call		£0.94	£3.13	£10.92
Grambo_67	Fold
elvisg1972	Call		£0.94	£4.07	£18.65
Turn
		4
elvisg1972	Check
docster	Bet		£2.04	£6.11	£16.13
Lambert180	Call		£2.04	£8.15	£8.88
elvisg1972	Call		£2.04	£10.19	£16.61
River
		A
elvisg1972	Check
docster	Check
Lambert180	All-in		£8.88	£19.07	£0.00
elvisg1972	Fold
docster	Fold
Lambert180	Muck
Lambert180	Win		£9.42		£9.42
Lambert180	Return		£8.88	£0.77	£18.30

craigcu12

when ever i have almost got nuts i generally do a small value bet and also let the timer go down to make impressions that your not too confident then it might tempt the villians to call or even bluff then you can reply with all in.

HYPETING

Looks like neither player likes the river.. 

Prob bet £4 - £5

SJspanky1

Flush gets there on the river plus an over if they are holding a large pair so probably best to try a small value bet in this instance. Very tough to get paid here IMO. NH tho.

liamboi11

the way it has been played think jamming is best option because if they are calling 5 quid probably calling 8quid so get max value.

also I understand your reasons for flatting turn and I prob do this sometimes but I prefer a raise on the turn for couple of reasons.

1-to try get money in before a card comes on river that might kill your action(which I think happened here)

2-also by getting more money in on turn and opponents call its a smaller bet you make on river giving them better odds to make call on river.

hope this makes sense i`m terrible typing things out but I know what I mean in my head lol.

percival09

I bet like £3.50 otr. dont really like shoving

I also raise otf. too many turn cards kill your action/put you behind. As played flatting the turn is good cos you have position on both players and the pot is already big enough

TommyD

I sometimes raise the flop in this spot, sometimes flat.  As Perce has said there are plenty of action killers in the deck so I'm slightly on the raise front in this particular spot but either is fine IMO.  Turn is an easy flat after you have flatted the flop.  On the river I can't see much else you can do than jam.  Any decent sized small V-Bet looks super strong and is only getting paid off by the club flush, I think it's doubtful either player has this and anyway we have less that a pot sized bet left.  I guess you can bet a ridic amount like £2 to really scrape that value out of the barrel but I'm nearly always shoving.

Cliffs, I think you've played the hand fine but there are some different ways you can play it which would also be fine.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 10NL - Flopped set:

i raise flop n try n play for stacks way u play u only win a small pot rather then a big 1 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

Not being funny but think this is just wrong, I'm not trying to win a small pot at all, if anything the way I've played it shows that I was happy taking the risk of being outdrawn for the reward of a bigger pot. If it goes bet, raise on the flop, how many hands can the 3rd player to act really call with on this board?

The person with the betting lead is building the pot big enough for me. The aim with nut hands is obv to manipulate the pot size to an amount where you can get it in on the river, and the villian is doing this for me, so I don't have to worry about SPR imo

rancid

U can still raise the flop and give them odds to call for the draw if you want to edge your bets and build a big pot

raise or flat is fine


bet smaller on river

percival09

In Response to Re: 10NL - Flopped set:

In Response to Re: 10NL - Flopped set : Not being funny but think this is just wrong, I'm not trying to win a small pot at all, if anything the way I've played it shows that I was happy taking the risk of being outdrawn for the reward of a bigger pot. If it goes bet, raise on the flop, how many hands can the 3rd player to act really call with on this board? The person with the betting lead is building the pot big enough for me. The aim with nut hands is obv to manipulate the pot size to an amount where you can get it in on the river, and the villian is doing this for me, so I don't have to worry about SPR imo
Posted by Lambert180

it's not wrong at all really

too many turn cards kill your action/put you behind

youre giving too much credit to 10nl players on sky. they'll put u on AK and get it in w/ 2nd pair

Lambert180

Well I don't know these players well so can't speak for how lightly they will stack off, but they (people at 10NL) aint all big spewers so don't wanna assume they're complete stations without some knowledge of that. And my thinking was (and I think it's still true), there's no way I can get both of them to put stacks in if I raise the flop which was my aim, whereas I can on later streets if I flat dependent on turn and river obv.

Flatting allows the 3rd player to call or even raise where he might have otherwise folded. I think it's a raise V 1 opponent, but against 2 I think either isn't too bad.

What kinda ranges are you/we putting them both on? What is he donking the flop with, I'd imagine he's probably calling a raise with everything he donks with BUT what is the original opener continuing with (assuming he opens fairly wide) when there's been a bet and a raise? Which extra hands would he call with if I flatted rather than raising?

G_Emery

I'm not much of a cash player but I think I'm probably going to bet about £3.50-£4 and hope to get someone shoving over the top.

cenachav

Shove is fine imho.  You have closer to 3/4 of the pot back then pot so any other bet tends to look super strong. 

I'm probably raising the flop too but the flat is fine.  Just as long as you are prepared to get away from it on a wet turn card

rancid

In Response to Re: 10NL - Flopped set:

Well I don't know these players well so can't speak for how lightly they will stack off, but they (people at 10NL) aint all big spewers so don't wanna assume they're complete stations without some knowledge of that. And my thinking was (and I think it's still true), there's no way I can get both of them to put stacks in if I raise the flop which was my aim, whereas I can on later streets if I flat dependent on turn and river obv. Flatting allows the 3rd player to call or even raise where he might have otherwise folded. I think it's a raise V 1 opponent, but against 2 I think either isn't too bad. What kinda ranges are you/we putting them both on? What is he donking the flop with, I'd imagine he's probably calling a raise with everything he donks with BUT what is the original opener continuing with (assuming he opens fairly wide) when there's been a bet and a raise? Which extra hands would he call with if I flatted rather than raising?
Posted by Lambert180

Think about what ranges will give you value on the flop by raising
If oppo's have draws then they are going to pay you on the flop, more chance of them folding on turn/river and you get no value. They may even shove on you with draws.
You have not got the nuts, you may see horrible turn cards that kill your action/put you behind - extract value )

How would you feel if your letting others build pots with a weaker hand and then horrible card comes and they blow you off the best hand -

Your kinda playing it like you have the draw yourself, so you could call down and shove blank rivers

Think your mind may be swayed because the end result is they fold so they never had the FD
So now your thinking that it was fine to call down because they had str draws/worse/bluffs

If you raise flop oppo can still call or shove with many worse hands


o yeah - stop giving them too much credit that they are good enough to fold @NL10
They are goingto struggle to fold 2 prs/overpairs on flop
By river they have an easy fold though - don't they :S

Lambert180

But I'm not saying it's right cos they didn't have the FD

I might be wrong on the numbers here but when I flop a set, don't I make a house by the river about 1in3 times? So I was perfectly happy if they have a FD in the sense that they only make it 1in3 times by the river, and sometimes I'll have housed up anyway. If it was HU then I would have raised the flop, but 3 way, I do think either is probably fine.

I'm capable of folding later in the hand if the board gets really horrible and am willing to take that risk for the reward of the times I get both players to stack off and I win a like 350xBB pot.