Is this ok to play....

profman15

Late in mini open.......no reads one way or the other. Is it acceptable to consider two pr even pr and good kicker or even push off bluff? Would you have ai'd here? Note flop ALL HEARTS. My hand offsuit.

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceprofman15Small blind800.00800.0044870.00TJPOTTERXXBig blind1600.002400.0031620.35 Your hole cardsA8   SPURS273FoldCJCPhenomFoldprofman15Raise2400.004800.0042470.00TJPOTTERXXCall1600.006400.0030020.35Flop  J910   profman15Bet3200.009600.0039270.00TJPOTTERXXRaise6400.0016000.0023620.35profman15Call3200.0019200.0036070.00Turn  7   profman15All-in36070.0055270.000.00TJPOTTERXXAll-in23620.3578890.350.00profman15Unmatched bet12449.6566440.7012449.65profman15ShowA8TJPOTTERXXShowK8River  A   TJPOTTERXXWinFlush to the King66440.7066440.70

PS sorry guys, i've tried five times to paste it properly but no success....TILTED NOW...ha!!!

PPS Actually it looks better and is shorter IMO. Note flop is ALL HEARTS.

profman15

I try and help you....i know it may be bad advice at times but if you profferedadvice here for me aybe i could promise NOT to comment on yours!!!!!!!

Lambert180

Sorry Profman, I was gonna comment but I just can't read the hand posted like that lol.

I can see the hands/board but can't see bet sizing etc

percival09

did I lol at the fact you made a complete mess of posting a hand and then went sick at people for not commenting [x]

profman15

Cheers guys for at least posting. Appreciate it!!  Just a couple of comments.....for some reason the cut and paste has been working intermitently for me lately....after 5 attempts, i thought this was good enough as it wasn't a complicated problem to my mind and only involved two players......So i didn't 'make a complete mess of it' P. Shall we call it wonderful technlogy showing a lack of consistancy, eh!!!! LOL
By the way L i can quite clearly see the bet sizing of the two players ...

it just says "profman15 bet".... and "jpotterxxx raise"........now that could be construed as a clue!!!!!!! LOL

Cheers guys....now its the technology that gets me on tilt too........"£$^&**

BorinLoner

In Response to Is this ok to play....:

Late in mini open.......no reads one way or the other. Is it acceptable to consider two pr even pr and good kicker or even push off bluff? Would you have ai'd here? Note flop ALL HEARTS. My hand offsuit. PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceprofman15Small blind800.00800.0044870.00TJPOTTERXXBig blind1600.002400.0031620.35 Your hole cards A 8    SPURS273Fold CJCPhenom Foldprofman15Raise2400.004800.0042470.00TJPOTTERXXCall1600.006400.0030020.35Flop   J 9 10    profman15Bet3200.009600.0039270.00TJPOTTERXXRaise6400.0016000.0023620.35profman15Call3200.0019200.0036070.00Turn   7    profman15All-in36070.0055270.000.00TJPOTTERXXAll-in23620.3578890.350.00profman15Unmatched bet12449.6566440.7012449.65profman15Show A 8 TJPOTTERXXShow K 8 River   A    TJPOTTERXXWinFlush to the King66440.7066440.70 PS sorry guys, i've tried five times to paste it properly but no success....TILTED NOW...ha!!! PPS Actually it looks better and is shorter IMO. Note flop is ALL HEARTS.
Posted by profman15

Profman15 (44870): Posts Small Blind (800)
TJPOTTERXX (31620.35): Posts Big Blind (1600)

Profman15: Ax 8x

SPURS273: Folds
CJCPhenom: Folds
Profman15 (42470): Raises to 3200 (Pot: 4800)
TJPOTTERXX (30020.35): Calls 1600 (Pot: 6400)

Flop: Jh 9h Th

Profman15 (39270): Bets 3200 (Pot: 9600)
TJPOTTERXX (23620.35): Raises to 6400 (Pot: 16000)
Profman15 (36070): Calls 3200 (Pot: 19200)

Turn: 7x

Profman15 (12449.65): Bets 23620.35 (Pot: 42820.35)
TJPOTTERXX (0): Calls All-in for 23620.35 (Pot: 66440.7)

Profman15 shows: Ax 8x
TJPOTTERXX shows: Kh 8h/d

River: Ah/d

TJPOTTERXX wins (66440.7) with the King-High Flush.

Lambert180

Thanks Borin

Personally I think you should fold the flop. Obviously at this stage you don't have a made hand, but even with that in mind, you're drawing to the (pardon the term) 'idiot end' of the straight AND there's a flush out there, so if you even think you have 8 outs for the straight, you can almost certainly discount 2 of them as they're hearts, and tbh, I'd probably discount all Qs as outs because the board will be QJT9 so you'll either lose the lot, split, or not get a single chip out of him.

profman15

Cheers Borin...very kind! However, where's your opinion;-)

profman15

In Response to Re: Is this ok to play....:

Thanks Borin Personally I think you should fold the flop. Obviously at this stage you don't have a made hand, but even with that in mind, you're drawing to the (pardon the term) 'idiot end' of the straight AND there's a flush out there, so if you even think you have 8 outs for the straight, you can almost certainly discount 2 of them as they're hearts, and tbh, I'd probably discount all Qs as outs because the board will be QJT9 so you'll either lose the lot, split, or not get a single chip out of him.
Posted by Lambert180

 Hi L, Cheers mate.

Understand your reasoning but my call of his raise would be looked upon as suspicious and may get me a free card to catch on river too so i thought the call pre flop was acceptable. I'd pushed this player off a pot earlier in similar circs and by this stage two pair hands are going all of the way imo. Idiot end str8 by this level are probably ahead. i just didn't believe  he had a made flush as i'd not have called and let him bet him again in the circumstances.  TBH i looked upon his min raise as trying to scare me off the pot. I didn't feel too sure of being ahead but i did feel that with probably 7 outs for winning if not showdown value and the fact that i may get a free card on turn , that it was worth it. Didn't turn out like that but my inkling that he would call because of size of his stack and maybe try to bully me was part of my decision.Ask yourself, as bb with a large stack what would i be prepared to play and call with in the bb. I think you may surprise yourself....pp, broadway cards, suited connectors. Indeed he decided to play k8s which would give him a range approachng ? What range would you play L in this position? If i'm trying to play against a range then surely flop of monotone cards shouldn't scare me unduly.
 Shoving with 'idiot' str8 wasn't the wrong decision to my mind as i felt his range was wide enough so that lhands i was losing to would be in the minority. A str8 put me ahead of a much greater majority. It was based on a mathematical decision , my opponents stack size and the fact that as sb he may gauge my pre raise as a steal that he was prepared to protect with the likes of broadway cards, spp's, etc. Yes, kicking myself but i didn't want  a single chip off him by my all in. I wanted to push him off the pot by that stages he could have one heart, two prs etc so i didn't want to give im the odds to take a card.Yes i fell in love with the str8....sigh.

Anyway, ta for your insight Lambert. I appreciate it and hope you don't mind me replying. I'm just trying to get my point across so that i can be corrected and then play more prudently in future......if i had i may have got into top ten instead of out within four hands but i'm trying to play versus a range of hands now and not so much fit/fold poker. It certainly hasits up and downs but by this stage, i thought i was playing against canny players who may try to play the board against me and not their hands....cheers m8. thanks again

NColley

Most of the time you are vs a pair+draw and so have very little equity, this flop hits a BB calling range so hard.

The implied odds aren't there either because the times you do hit your miracle card its virtually impossible to get paid by anything you'd be beating.

Your also out of position so its not like you can control the turn if you miss, so yea just fold flop.

Also, think leading turn all in was just really bad.

profman15

In Response to Re: Is this ok to play....:

Most of the time you are vs a pair+draw and so have very little equity, this flop hits a BB calling range so hard. The implied odds aren't there either because the times you do hit your miracle card its virtually impossible to get paid by anything you'd be beating. Your also out of position so its not like you can control the turn if you miss, so yea just fold flop. Also, think leading turn all in was just really bad.
Posted by NColley

Cheers NC ...nicely put ...very succinct...and correct no doubt.
Would you mind saying what you would expect his range of calling hands to be here in the bb and do you feel his stack would change that?

rancid

if you think your ace high is good, why flat tthe flop raise - just shove

shove or fold flop imo

just fold flop imo

profman15

In Response to Re: Is this ok to play....:

if you think your ace high is good, why flat tthe flop raise - just shove shove or fold flop imo just fold flop imo
Posted by rancid

True R. Chicken methinks. I didn't believe he had the flopped flush. Did you know that its less than 1% probability that you have suited cards and hit flush so i took it as a semi bluff but that he had broadway cards maybe. When the str8 hit, i thought that i was ahead and my all-in would get worse hands to call eg 2 pr. Maybe this is flawed but it was a plan and brave at least.

rancid

think turn shove is fine -
just gotta question why you flat the flop raise -

also raise more outta the sb -