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Getting lost on the way to value town

shakinacesshakinaces Member Posts: 1,590
edited November 2012 in The Poker Clinic
I'm still trying to better judge my value betting on the river, although the times I miss out on a few extra pence seem to be massively outweighed by the time I value bet bigger pots and talk myself into calling reraises from hands that obviously have me beaten.  With that in mind, what should I improve here:

AJo probably not a great raise with three better players to get past, but guy before me was constantly limping so felt it was worth a go...

I'd only been around 75% c-betting so thought I'd stayed in line often enough to chuck some more chips in, although with KQ on board should I have checked here to keep pot smaller?

Then the nut card, maybe should have bet a bit bigger here but think I played this street ok.

Getting the call again I thought there must be an OK hand but JT/KQ/KJ/QJ/AT sort of hand that thought it had more outs than it did.  Missed a trick though not thinking that there could be a flush draw coming along for the ride at this stage?

So with that in mind, a value bet goes in - should I be checking more with the flush now home and hosed?  Should I bet thinner so that I can make more of a case to fold to the re-raise?

And I am right that I HAD to call the re-raise, right?

I just continue to get so lost on river bets :/
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
maximus66 Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £10.23
jameswins Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £10.22
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • J
     
DTWBANDIT Fold        
Rob132 Call   £0.10 £0.25 £7.01
shakinaces Raise   £0.40 £0.65 £17.06
TINTIN Fold        
maximus66 Fold        
jameswins Fold        
Rob132 Call   £0.30 £0.95 £6.71
Flop
   
  • Q
  • K
  • 6
     
Rob132 Check        
shakinaces Bet   £0.50 £1.45 £16.56
Rob132 Call   £0.50 £1.95 £6.21
Turn
   
  • 10
     
Rob132 Check        
shakinaces Bet   £1.20 £3.15 £15.36
Rob132 Call   £1.20 £4.35 £5.01
River
   
  • 3
     
Rob132 Check        
shakinaces Bet   £3.00 £7.35 £12.36
Rob132 All-in   £5.01 £12.36 £0.00
shakinaces Call   £2.01 £14.37 £10.35
Rob132 Show
  • 5
  • Q
     
shakinaces Show
  • A
  • J
     
Rob132 Win Flush to the King £13.29   £13.29

Comments

  • Curt360x27Curt360x27 Member Posts: 490
    edited November 2012
    Don't need to worry about anything here you played the hand perfectly. 

    However judging by your post your thinking and mental side of the game seems pretty bad. First of all you should be opening AJ on a 6max table from any position. You should be raising here 100% of the time to 3x +1bb for every limper (which you did) as its such a good spot to iso a weak player in position. Flop c bet is also good. When you make the nuts on the turn your bet sizing could be a touch bigger to set up a nice size shove on the river however you bet and that is the main thing. 
    Now on the river the club should not concern you at all! It is very unlikely our opponent holds a flush as he would have been calling on a back door draw on the flop. 

    Whe our opponent checks to you on the river you should never ever ever ever be checking back!
    Now when you bet on the river you should be snap calling. A) As you have the effective nuts, your going to see you opponent turn over so many 2 pair hands, sets the worse straight and other sh it so many times in comparison to when he has the flush. B) You only have to call £2 to scoop the £14 pot.








  • shakinacesshakinaces Member Posts: 1,590
    edited November 2012
    Cheers for the reply - and no argument that my thinking of the game requires much improvement!

    Regarding your comment on AJo - is that really seen as a raise from anywhere? This is probably due to having learned poker on 10-seater games, but was always of the thinking that I shouldn't be looking to play it from the blinds UTG/UTG+1 and be left out of position with what is a dangerous hand to get carried away with... it sounds like I can add 'still way too much of a nit' to my list of leaks if my thinking is outdated on that front :/

    Also seems to be the day for backdoor flushes catching me out, as I just got bumped from a bounty hunter with a near replica of this post-flop lol... hopefully variance will give me my day tomorrow :)
  • Curt360x27Curt360x27 Member Posts: 490
    edited November 2012
    Yeah AJ should be a raise from any position on a 6max imo and remember by raise I mean an opening raise. As you stated though this can change when we are playing a 10 seater table. Your right to be cautious about the hand though and a lot of people can loose more than they should with a hand like this. However the more experience you gain by playing hands like this the better you become at playing through the streets with them vs. certain/different opponents. Once more experienced you can also start to open your opening range/iso range a lot wider than AJ. 

    Like I said you played the hand very well and imo did every thing right. Just remember to base your decisions on whats the right play long term and don't be worried about the odd time you loose some money as 9/10 in this spot you will have the best hand. 

    gl at the tables. 
  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited November 2012
    Pre= Fine

    Flop i probably check back pretty wet flop and would be nice to see a free card. Dont think it gets through often enough on this type of flop.

    As played turn is fine, river fine.

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