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200nl River Spot

TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
edited November 2012 in The Poker Clinic
This hand kind of stood out for some reason and I felt it might merit discussion.  I'm pretty sure I made the right decision on the end but I'd be interested on the range we put the villain on.

I don't recognise the villain, they originally bought in for less than the max, somewhere around 40BB.  I haven't seen anything to either scare or excite me so far in this session.  Thoughts on all streets always welcome as always, but let's not get too hung up on pre please.  I think it's an open from the C/O and I like to get involved in lots of hands to play down the streets.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Boonicon Small blind  £1.00 £1.00 £229.70
xBig blind  £2.00 £3.00 £91.17
 Your hole cards
  • 9
  • K
   
millerz1 Fold     
TommyD Raise  £6.00 £9.00 £246.70
andrew1947 Fold     
Boonicon Fold     
x Call  £4.00 £13.00 £87.17
Flop
  
  • 10
  • J
  • Q
   
x Check     
TommyD Bet  £8.00 £21.00 £238.70
x Call  £8.00 £29.00 £79.17
Turn
  
  • J
   
x Check     
TommyD Bet  £20.00 £49.00 £218.70
x Call  £20.00 £69.00 £59.17
River
  
  • 3
   
x All-in  £59.17 £128.17 £0.00
TommyD ?
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Comments

  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited November 2012
    This stinks he could easily have qj or pocket 10s here imo only thing i think we are beating is if hes gone crazy with a lower flush draw but that would be super spewy.  I can fold here. Think you played it fine im assuming you folded the river.
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  • diablo_pezdiablo_pez Member Posts: 1,392
    edited November 2012
    I think he's got a low flush, you call and scoop the pot.
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 200nl River Spot:
    I think he's got a low flush, you call and scoop the pot.
    Posted by diablo_pez
    Hes going to have the nuts so much more often than a lower flush draw and why would he over bet jam the pot with a lower flush draw.  I just think hes never ever bluffing here.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited November 2012
    Surely QJ and JT raise on such a wet flop especially when he's sitting with <50xBB so imo you can rule them out (most of the time). A flopped set probably raises too.

    Think it's more likely to be the nut flush than it is a lower flush though when 4 of the top 6 diamonds are out, and people love a raggy suited Ax lol.

    It's so hard (for me anyway)... I think I have to call, cos alot of the hands that beat you just don't make sense to me.

    P.S. I don't see any problem with raising K9s from the CO at all, especially when it aint even a full table.
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  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited November 2012
    J10 could def flat otf

    I think it's prob close if hes a bad player cos he might overvalue trips here or even tp etc. but idk.I prob fold cos imo he has way more hands that beat you than don't
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  • Kenny_CKenny_C Member Posts: 65
    edited November 2012
    I'm never folding a straight flush

    In Response to 200nl River Spot:
    This hand kind of stood out for some reason and I felt it might merit discussion.  I'm pretty sure I made the right decision on the end but I'd be interested on the range we put the villain on. I don't recognise the villain, they originally bought in for less than the max, somewhere around 40BB.  I haven't seen anything to either scare or excite me so far in this session.  Thoughts on all streets always welcome as always, but let's not get too hung up on pre please.  I think it's an open from the C/O and I like to get involved in lots of hands to play down the streets. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Boonicon Small blind   £1.00 £1.00 £229.70 x Big blind   £2.00 £3.00 £91.17   Your hole cards 9 K       millerz1 Fold         TommyD Raise   £6.00 £9.00 £246.70 andrew1947 Fold         Boonicon Fold         x  Call   £4.00 £13.00 £87.17 Flop     10 J Q       x  Check         TommyD Bet   £8.00 £21.00 £238.70 x  Call   £8.00 £29.00 £79.17 Turn     J       x  Check         TommyD Bet   £20.00 £49.00 £218.70 x  Call   £20.00 £69.00 £59.17 River     3       x  All-in   £59.17 £128.17 £0.00 TommyD ?
    Posted by TommyD
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited November 2012
    ez call 
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  • simonnatursimonnatur Member Posts: 330
    edited November 2012
    I think you're behind nearly all the time here. I'ld struggle to fold in game, but think he has set or flopped 2 pr that he pot-controlled on flop and called on the turn hoping to stack you if your flush draw gets there.

    You haven't labelled him as a weak player, so it seems unlikely for him to call on the turn with nut flush draw when board pairs.

    My only other comment would be that I'ld like to see more money go in on a flop that often hits his calling range pretty hard
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  • Curt360x27Curt360x27 Member Posts: 490
    edited November 2012
    As you are readless and villain is not known to you and has not bought in full then I would just call and makes notes......... HOWEVER, given your description and how the river has been played, i'm pretty sure who our opponent is and your always behind here.

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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited November 2012
    I'm not good enuf to fold this readless

    I call and hope for trips or a worse flush

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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 200nl River Spot:
    As you are readless and villain is not known to you and has not bought in full then I would just call and makes notes......... HOWEVER, given your description and how the river has been played, i'm pretty sure who our opponent is and your always behind here.
    Posted by Curt360x27
    Didn't want to comment for a bit but this might be a red herring.  I know and have notes on the vast majority of regs at nl200.  I neither recognised or had notes on the player here.
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  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited November 2012
    folding seems mental


    K9cc could be a fold but dd no no.
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  • LOL_RAISELOL_RAISE Member Posts: 2,188
    edited November 2012
    bet bigger on flop/turn dont see why you would ever fold
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  • JSTFLIPPINJSTFLIPPIN Member Posts: 255
    edited November 2012
    cooler y0
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited November 2012
    Smash the call button, fistpump that you managed to get stacks in, if the pot gets shipped to other player then log into forum and make a post about it ;)
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  • TommyDTommyD Member Posts: 4,389
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 200nl River Spot:
    Smash the call button, fistpump that you managed to get stacks in, if the pot gets shipped to other player then log into forum and make a post about it ;)
    Posted by CoxyLboro
    Haha, I love that response.

    Yes there was a bit of a mischievous reason why I posted it but that's not it.

    I snapped obviously and got shown K8o for the busted straight draw.

    I posted it because I knew I'd get a totally polarised response between 'you're never ahead' and 'easy call.'  I like posting those sort of hands.

    Ok the thinking throughout the hand, the main reason I posted tbh was so this could be examined.  Random has bought in for a short amount.  My default setting for them is not very good (right, wrong?)

    Pre-Flop standard

    Flop - Effective nuts with extensions as I don't think AK ever flats pre.  I couple of people mentioned I've bet a little small here.  The reason for this was as he was a shorty I wanted to make a reasonable bet i)  give him maximum FE if he chooses to shove light/draws ii)  Have a better chance to bring him along to catch another piece on the turn or river.  (Right, wrong?)  I know my bet sizing isn't perfect in general, it's something I'm really trying to work on but still some way to go.

    Turn - Same thinking as flop, but I admit I should be betting more here.  I also think he has never housed up here.  Shorters generally get money in on the flop, especially a wet one like that,  so I've discounted two pair and sets to be there enough to make me fold.

    River - He's representing the flush.  Again, I'm even more convinced it's not a house I'm up against.  He's repping a flush so why would he represent smaller than he has unless he's made a soul read on me that I must have flushes/small boats.  So now I'm thinking flushes, air and hands turned into bluffs.  I beat most of these so I must call.


    As Beaneh said, K9cc is a headache in this spot.  Not sure what I'd do in game TBH, meh, probably station off but it's so much closer.

    BTW, I really loved Lambert's post, IMO pretty much got stuff nailed on.

    Thanks for all of the responses guys.
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  • WHOAMI196WHOAMI196 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 200nl River Spot:
    ez call 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    +1
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited November 2012
    Pre flop standard, dunno how anyone could comment on it too much ;)
    Flop fine
    Turn fine
    River Call

    Would need a bit of history with villain if im ever folding there
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