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Last 8 mini open facing bb shove w/AJ 24bb on da btn

rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
edited November 2012 in The Poker Clinic

Ok so we approaching the FT, last 8.
I been min opening a little, not loads - but enough for people to notice I am applying pressure approaching FT
BB has shoved on my btn open 3-4 times recently, not showing hands down - so not sure what oppo is shoving
Most of my opens are getting through, I have folded 3-4 times from the bb shoves previously.
SB calls nearly all my opens, I have folded a bit to the sb action on flop and have showndown K9s from a min btn open
In my mind the table may be thinking that I am opening light

Not noticed oppo opening a lot, seems very ABC player - just shoves a lot or opens 3x

Do we call or fold
I am sitting 4th I think - don't think that really matters though as short stack was around 35,000 and I obviously want to win it - chip leader was 120,000 so a double up would put me in a great position versus players that I feel I have an edge over -

In my mind BB is never squeezing light

Hand History #588792802 (23:46 20/11/2012)

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
KillEmAll Small blind   1250.00 1250.00 123842.51
X Big blind   2500.00 3750.00 57818.75
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • J
     
The_Boat Fold        
rancid Raise   5000.00 8750.00 57314.98
KillEmAll Call   3750.00 12500.00 120092.51
X All-in   57818.75 70318.75 0.00
rancid
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Comments

  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited November 2012
    if he is not squeezing light then you're either racing or crushed, no?
    sigh / fold and try again.
    23BB still very playable
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited November 2012
    Why do you think he can't be squeezing if he's shoved on your button raises three or four times already and your image is loose?

    Also, consider putting this hand ID on the Clinic TV show thread.
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  • Curt360x27Curt360x27 Member Posts: 490
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: Last 8 mini open facing bb shove w/AJ 24bb on da btn:
    Why do you think he can't be squeezing if he's shoved on your button raises three or four times already and your image is loose? Also, consider putting this hand ID on the Clinic TV show thread.
    Posted by BorinLoner

    This^

    If he has done it 3-4 times over your button open and SB flat then this is a dream spot with AJ imo.  
    It seems our opponent is a capable player and is exploiting your opens and the SB weak/passive play and constantly picking up dead money uncontested. Personally given the dynamic I think it's a snap call.

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  • BigHawk89BigHawk89 Member Posts: 627
    edited November 2012
    If you feel you have an edge over the table don't see why you would want to get into an all in confrotations. 23 bigs is still very playable. But I wouldn't fault the call if you did.
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  • G_EmeryG_Emery Member Posts: 113
    edited November 2012
    Would be folding this as you got a caller and a all in.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: Last 8 mini open facing bb shove w/AJ 24bb on da btn:
    In Response to Re: Last 8 mini open facing bb shove w/AJ 24bb on da btn : This^ If he has done it 3-4 times over your button open and SB flat then this is a dream spot with AJ imo.   It seems our opponent is a capable player and is exploiting your opens and the SB weak/passive play and constantly picking up dead money uncontested. Personally given the dynamic I think it's a snap call.
    Posted by Curt360x27

    This is the issue I have, I just don't know if oppo is capable and shoving or if oppo is shoving A10< or is shoving 8's-AK -
    Suppose I should fold if my reads ain't good enough.
    But because oppo has done this to me 3-4 times then surely I have to call, or am I just levelling myself - is AJ too big to min open/fold w/24bb
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  • FlashFlushFlashFlush Member Posts: 4,494
    edited November 2012
    If your reads aren't that strong yet then pass this time. Just keep an extra close eye on what he is doing. 23BB at this stage in the tournament is loads! Wait for a better chance, or see if he does it with someone else and see what he shows.

    Even if he just has air and live cards your still out of the tournament 4 times out of 10! If he is doing it light that will soon be very apparent and you will get a much better spot.
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  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited November 2012
    realistically what are you happy to see in his hand?
    Ax less than AJ and other Jx hands. 
    Tight or light that's not going to be a big percentage of his range.
    Now if he was an Ax shove monkey that would be different, but no reason to infer that yet.


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  • Curt360x27Curt360x27 Member Posts: 490
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: Last 8 mini open facing bb shove w/AJ 24bb on da btn:
    In Response to Re: Last 8 mini open facing bb shove w/AJ 24bb on da btn : This is the issue I have, I just don't know if oppo is capable and shoving or if oppo is shoving A10< or is shoving 8's-AK - Suppose I should fold if my reads ain't good enough. But because oppo has done this to me 3-4 times then surely I have to call, or am I just levelling myself - is AJ too big to min open/fold w/24bb
    Posted by rancid

    Has oppo ever flat called onced you've opened and SB has flatted? If not then as this is oppo 4/5 time of making this move I think we can make a pretty informed judgment that our oppo is exploiting the situation and shoving with a range that AJ beats/possibly flipping.

    No of course not. However given the dynamic then I i'm calling this off here. Having said that I don't think its bad to fold, like others have said even if he has air your not going to be a huge favourite plus the fact we still have 23 bb in an MTT without antes which makes a big difference. 

    BTW would you call with say 55-1010?

    FWIW I suck b alls at MTT's so I could be completely given b alls advice!

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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited November 2012
    This is an easy fist pump snap call are opponant has shoved for 11 bigs over the top of a button raise standard mtt spot.  Folding would be really really bad.

    Edit i thought he shoved for 11 bigs he actually has 23 bigs!  Yes this is a snap fold on sky as the shoving ranges from players on this site compared to others is so tight.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2012
    Cheers guys

    ofc I think oppo is shoving worse Ax and possibly mid prs for me to make the call & yes 55-10's becomes an easy call i think - or may 88-JJ )
    I don't think oppo range is that narrow because oppo been doing it a few times, but like i said that could just me levelling myself

    Now I did think before I raised that if bb shoves, I snap ! Sure it's just a level !

    Looking back now w/23bb I think I made a mistake and should of opted for default shoving range of 88+AQ+ considering stack sizes - I can't see now oppo actually shoving A10 - and if so like someone said above - I am sure it's bottom of range
    But hey the oppo been getting on my nerves shoving on me
    oppo has only 3x and shoved - oppo probbaly just picking up hands :s
    oppo has never called either when I raise btn and sb calls

    I'll reveal result later if anyone is intrested

    anyways gg

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  • profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
    edited November 2012
    Could this be looked upon as a squeeze play. T life is on the line. He hasn't done this when you've been active before so i'd be concerned. Personally i feel you will be 30:70  v AQ+ or 54:46 either way v pp.
    It's that "he thinks that ithinks that he thinks that i..." game maybe! I have faith in you R....or at least you'd considered it and had a plan.
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  • YOUNG_GUNYOUNG_GUN Member Posts: 8,948
    edited November 2012
    Ez call imo, unlucky if he has it!! based on history, cant have it everytime, or can he? ;)
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  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited November 2012
    hmmm - had similar in the DS tonight - 23BB I minraise the button with ATs - sb folds - bb who has 3bet me in this position b4 shoves. I snap call.

    the differences - bb has 12BB, & it's our good friend yoyo. ie it could be atc, and i would still have, just, a playable stack even if I lose.

    he shows A7 and hits the 7 on the flop - but I river the flush.

    I guess you weren't so lucky Rancid - what happened?




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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2012
    oppo shows AK and I am out !!


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