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10nl......too spewy???

waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
edited November 2012 in The Poker Clinic
The villain is very loose and aggro, loads of 3 bets, loads of 5x raises pre and I have seen him call for half his stack with j9o (not in this session)........so given these reads how is my play??? When he 5 bet shoves I fear he may have a hand for once but by then do I have to call it off???

Advice please...
x Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £13.97
BLUCHERBOY Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £10.01
 Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
   
waller02 Raise  £0.30 £0.45 £12.67
TINTIN Fold     
x Raise  £1.05 £1.50 £12.92
BLUCHERBOY Fold     
waller02 Raise  £4.00 £5.50 £8.67
x All-in
waller02         ?
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Comments

  • jams88jams88 Member Posts: 694
    edited November 2012
    i think i prefer a flat of his 3bet in position, no point 4 to that amount unless you are willing to get stacks in imo
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  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited November 2012
    4 bet if you want to get stacks in, don't ever 4bet AQ vs these type of players if you intend to fold.

    Size is way too big imo.

    I prefer to flat 3bet tbh because you make far more money playing these kinds of players down the streets. 
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited November 2012
    yeah probs best to flat, he had been 3 betting loads and I wanted to draw a line in the sand, I was prepared to go to war with this hand against this player because of the way he plays everytime I come across him

    I dunno in hindsight maybe the flat is best........but at the time I was like "stop f'in 3 betting me, here have that!!" lol
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited November 2012
    Flat  the 3 bet here if we 4 bet we have to be 4 betting for a reason to get it in.  We could 4 bet in this spot if the opponant was a maniac and were prepared to get it in confidently feeling that he was going to 5 bet jam light.  You say he called half his stack with j9 so therefore a player like this is easy to play against as when he raises he will have it.
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited November 2012
    the guy was raising and 3 betting loads..so how do you figure he will have a hand. the only time it crossed my mind that he might have a hand is when he shoved but by then i guess i had to call.

    if i flat the 3 bet he is leading out on the flop 100%, if i miss I either fold or put in a risky bluff against someone who you dont really wanna bluff

    my thinking was if i 4 bet it is far more likely that i win the pot as he either folds, flats the 4 bet giving me control of the hand or if he does shove there is still a good chance that i'm in ok shape......i dunno, he def got under my skin lol
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  • offshootoffshoot Member Posts: 1,049
    edited November 2012
    Whats '3bet loads'? Because its easy to assume because someone has 3bet you twice in a short period of time or something that hes aggro when really hes just picking up hands. What positions has he been 3betting from? What kind of hands has he shown down this session? If hes shown down any real junk then it makes this decision easier.

    If hes really as loose as you say then getting it in is fine.
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited November 2012
    Yes need a good sample size to judge wheather he has it or not.  But like i said he only flat falled with j9 for half his stack and seen a flop instead of jamming therefore i think he has it on this occasion as hes reraising.  Generally a lot of people at these levels will call big over raises and over call 3 and 4 bets to see a flop with marginal hands its when they reraise you you need to be worried as theres not many people at this level capable of 5 bet bluffing light.
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10nl......too spewy???:
    Yes need a good sample size to judge wheather he has it or not.  But like i said he only flat falled with j9 for half his stack and seen a flop instead of jamming therefore i think he has it on this occasion as hes reraising.  Generally a lot of people at these levels will call big over raises and over call 3 and 4 bets to see a flop with marginal hands its when they reraise you you need to be worried as theres not many people at this level capable of 5 bet bluffing light.
    Posted by bearlyther
    i have played numerous sessions against the villain. he only flat called with the j9 because the guy had shoved and he was last to act.

    in answer to offshoots question.....i was in the cut off he was on the small blind and the last 3 times i had raised he 3 bet.

    i dont understand why people say.....if someone is 3 betting a lot then 4 bet when you have a hand.......so i do this and i'm getting told it was a mistake.

    against most players i would flat the 3 bet but given my reads and the 3 bet frequency of the player i thought the 4 bet would be best and be happy to get them in if he comes back over the top, i ran into ak but i feel that 4 betting in that spot would have won me more hands than lost against that villain.....i don't know????

    only good thing to come out of it was that he didnt 3 bet me again for the rest of the session haha

    ty for your input :)
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10nl......too spewy???:
    Yes need a good sample size to judge wheather he has it or not.  But like i said he only flat falled with j9 for half his stack and seen a flop instead of jamming therefore i think he has it on this occasion as hes reraising.  Generally a lot of people at these levels will call big over raises and over call 3 and 4 bets to see a flop with marginal hands its when they reraise you you need to be worried as theres not many people at this level capable of 5 bet bluffing light.
    Posted by bearlyther
    when he 5 bets i know he hasnt got junk but by then i have to go with my hand......but surely it's his 3 bet range that i should be thinking about????

    if a player has been playing extremely loose everytime you play him, 3 betting your raises and you have AQs then you're not 4 betting????

    i have always been a nitty player and have been trying to add some aggression into my game which is why i asked for advice......i thought this would be a good spot the majority of the time?
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  • jugglegeekjugglegeek Member Posts: 623
    edited November 2012
    Your 4-bet is mah-sivvve. From how I read the hand you make a 3x from UTG, he 3-bets to £1.10 (11BBs) from SB and you 4-bet to £4.30!!! (43BBs). A more standard 4-bet to say £2.50 is big enough to get rid of him if he is bluffing with total air, and small enough to encorage him to 5-bet bluff. If you think he is that much of a maniac then this is what you want. It also makes it tempting for him to call the 4-bet and play a massive pot out of possition against you, when you have AQs this is also a good thing.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2012
    Don't 4 bet fold

    Get it in, your not 4 betting light w/AQs - you gotta believe your 4 betting for value versus oppo calling or shoving range
    If you don't feel this then don't 4 bet AQs -
    If your 4 betting light then it's an easy fold but make it smaller either way - £3 ish or 2.60

    if you feel dirty about it just flat the 3 bet

    plus if oppo been 3 betting u loads then 4 bet light
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,072
    edited November 2012

    yeah i admit the 4 bet is too big.....was a heat of the moment FO stop 3 betting me!!!! haha

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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited November 2012
    If he has 3 bet you 3 hands in a row 4 bet him and snap the 5 bet jam.
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