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Weird Spot, NL100 Thoughts?
AMYBR
Member Posts: 3,432
One of the regs in a cash game I regularly play asked me to post this hand. We've talked about it a fair bit but cant seem to agree, so would be good to hear some other peoples views if your willing.
Am going to lay out reads and table dynamic, but this hand mostly concerns action at the turn and is very situational. Am not asking what line we like over a volume of hands, just in this specific spot.
8 handed NL100. Action goes HU on flop so will only give the approximate stack size of myself and opponent.
The straddle has been on most of the evening, with half the table opting to restraddle, so its a pretty lively table.
In this hand the restraddle is on. Opponent is a solid thinking player, who switches gears alot. I'd say closer to TAG than anything else, but does open his game up well, punishing position pretty consistently. With this in mind he has been pretty mercillessly attacking the re straddles from the button. Opponent plays well through streets and will comfortably peel when 3bet IP vs people who he knows he has an edge over. So all in all a pretty tricky opponent :P (have played at the same tables consistently for at least 3 years)
Game has been running for about 5 hours, I am about 450bbs deep and he has me comfortably covered. My image is significantly rockier than his.
S0: NL100, straddle restraddle, opponent makes it £12 from the button. I am in the SB and find AcKc. Sometimes I'll flat here sometimes I'll 3bet. On this occassion I decide to 3bet, mainly to get HU and because I believe Oppo will peel pretty wide IP. But being prepard to tread carefully post as there is going to be a lot of levelling between him and I. I 3bet to £35. He ponders for quite awhile as though he has a real decision, then calls. My range is pretty tight here, his pretty wide. But there may be some levelling where he might perceive my raise as a re steal.
£78 in pot. HU Effective stack is £400(bb) Ks Qs Jc. I just feel like this flop is going to be a lot of trouble, lot of 2prs lot of draws. But worst thing I can do is hand over the betting lead to this guy, unless I am prepared to c/c each street with 1pr. So I simply bet for value, being £48. Opponent doesnt seem to have much of a decision and calls. Lot of turn cards we dont want to see, but could easily be a float from this guy. But he could just as easily have had me in bad shape the whole way, or hold a nand of high equity.
£174pot (£350 back) Ks Qs Jc 4s. Given all reads stated and dynamic, after being flatted on flop:
What do we like on turn and why?
Am going to lay out reads and table dynamic, but this hand mostly concerns action at the turn and is very situational. Am not asking what line we like over a volume of hands, just in this specific spot.
8 handed NL100. Action goes HU on flop so will only give the approximate stack size of myself and opponent.
The straddle has been on most of the evening, with half the table opting to restraddle, so its a pretty lively table.
In this hand the restraddle is on. Opponent is a solid thinking player, who switches gears alot. I'd say closer to TAG than anything else, but does open his game up well, punishing position pretty consistently. With this in mind he has been pretty mercillessly attacking the re straddles from the button. Opponent plays well through streets and will comfortably peel when 3bet IP vs people who he knows he has an edge over. So all in all a pretty tricky opponent :P (have played at the same tables consistently for at least 3 years)
Game has been running for about 5 hours, I am about 450bbs deep and he has me comfortably covered. My image is significantly rockier than his.
S0: NL100, straddle restraddle, opponent makes it £12 from the button. I am in the SB and find AcKc. Sometimes I'll flat here sometimes I'll 3bet. On this occassion I decide to 3bet, mainly to get HU and because I believe Oppo will peel pretty wide IP. But being prepard to tread carefully post as there is going to be a lot of levelling between him and I. I 3bet to £35. He ponders for quite awhile as though he has a real decision, then calls. My range is pretty tight here, his pretty wide. But there may be some levelling where he might perceive my raise as a re steal.
£78 in pot. HU Effective stack is £400(bb) Ks Qs Jc. I just feel like this flop is going to be a lot of trouble, lot of 2prs lot of draws. But worst thing I can do is hand over the betting lead to this guy, unless I am prepared to c/c each street with 1pr. So I simply bet for value, being £48. Opponent doesnt seem to have much of a decision and calls. Lot of turn cards we dont want to see, but could easily be a float from this guy. But he could just as easily have had me in bad shape the whole way, or hold a nand of high equity.
£174pot (£350 back) Ks Qs Jc 4s. Given all reads stated and dynamic, after being flatted on flop:
What do we like on turn and why?
Comments
Its difficult to put him on a made hand on the flop except qj, or slow played monster like jj, but with description given i lead turn like 110~ as you say he should have a wide range here and we have best hand often.
But checking is good too imo, there is a lot of reads you can gain from his bet size, body language or if he checks.
Doesnt seem like people are being that active this week, not really been checking in much myself. But I'll look back later and explain what I did and why and how it ended.
Checking felt very wrong, as we arent really able to c/f with reads. But betting is ugly as we may well be leading into a made hand or 2pr hand. Only real line i didnt considor in hand was c/ring (on flop). Which has some merit in hand, but I think oppo likely wont stab as my range is really polarised to Nutpp's and Apic (would have likely set mined vs table with lower pairs). So most likely result of of attempting to c/r would be to let draws get there for free.
Yeah flatting flop was much more likely to be a draw than a complete float. Then kind of got to the turn and a bit frozen in honesty. Can only really be a nut hand or a strong draw
So basically just decided to committ, being prepared to either get snapped off/shipped on or force out the draws.
So pretty much potted turn, which is something I very rarely do. We are either bluffing needlessly high or making it difficult for ourselves to get value. (Happy to pot for value where we feel strongly we'll be called obv.) Didnt want to bet £100 - £120 and be stationed for a ugly river, plus didnt want to allow oppo to merge an equity shove with value shove.
Just felt oppo's equity was likely so high here if he hadnt already made a hand. Am happy to price people to their draws ordinarily, but with the over inflation of the pot it just seemed like needless risk.
You guys hit the money card straight off the bat btw. Oppo was genuinely frustrated, tank folding and showing the 10s (OESD 10highFD). Claiming his spade outs to be good - which they were.
We had a drink afterwards and discussed the turn pot bet. But couldnt really agree. Am still unsure, but with stated reads....... grrrrr.....lol mergy
But yes, given the reads set out I am interested in peoples thoughts. I was not asking how you would approach the hand readless or if a person was just crunching the numbers.
After digesting it abit more feel like if we know we are b/c ing turn anyway may as well size it more towards value than shutdown. Especially when oppo has the potential to ship on a semi bluff/draw. Better to leave him the required room to make a play with his equity.
I would take check/call route on the flop, this should look pretty strong(trap) depending on his bet size obv
once we check call pretty much have to get in on turn so bet / call