of course poker is gambling. you are using statistical information to make a decision, ie on the river you believe you have a number of outs that warrant you calling because of the size of your final call in comparison to the total pot. Post your call the final outcome will be decided by...................wait for it................drum roll...............LUCK! their will be no impact of experience on the nature of the final card, the amount of times you have been in that position and won or lost will have no impact, the cards have no memory, nor do they know how fortunate or not you have been in the countless times you have been waiting on that deciding river card before. you are gambling. you play poker, you are a gambler. if you choose to hold negative associations with that word, then that is your psychological problem. you are a gambler, you tie your fortunes to the turn of a card, deal with it
of course poker is gambling....... you play poker, you are a gambler. if you choose to hold negative associations with that word, then that is your psychological problem. you are a gambler, you tie your fortunes to the turn of a card, deal with it Posted by memfno
any individual hand or bet may be a gamble in your sense of the word, but good poker players don't gamble - they play percentages - they use their skill at deciphering the info in the hand, along with past experiences based on similar hands, and notes on the same people, to make evaluated bets.
i find there are two main types of people who play poker - those who like to gamble - and those who don't - and there are enough of the latter to confirm to me that poker isn't just about gambling.
my analogy is to relate poker to chess - but with a big dollop of chance on top. so you can be "lucky" enough to beat phil hellmuth* in any one hand - but you won't do so in the longer term - why - because over the long term his skill overwhelms the luck factor. but the reason many of us play is that in the short term we might beat phil.
I think you're doing any argument you try to make a disservice if you're are saying to people poker isn't gambling, it will just make you seem deluded, because it is...
Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.
Dont kid yourself otherwise. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are at the game. Obviously the point to make is that gambling with an edge is no bad thing.
I think you're doing any argument you try to make a disservice if you're are saying to people poker isn't gambling, it will just make you seem deluded, because it is... Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Dont kid yourself otherwise. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are at the game. Obviously the point to make is that gambling with an edge is no bad thing. Posted by offshoot
THIS. OFC its gambling. The second you enter any money into a pot, the outcome is uncertain and therefore you are gambling the money you put in.
What I love about poker is you can sometimes get disproportionate odds. Unless you know a very ropey bookie, where else are you gonna get even money with your AA to beat AK aipf despite being a huge 90+% favorite! Or better yet get even money on the flop with 100% chance of winning (i managed to get it in with quads vs a lower set)
Agree that short-term poker results are determined mainly by luck while insisting that long term results are always determined by skill, because the luck will have levelled out over the course of time.
As proof show them Olivier Busquet's Sharkscope graphs (Adonis112 on PS, livb112 on FTP) and ask them to explain how this could possibly happen if poker was purely a game of luck.
Agree that short-term poker results are determined mainly by luck while insisting that long term results are always determined by skill, because the luck will have levelled out over the course of time. As proof show them Olivier Busquet's Sharkscope graphs (Adonis112 on PS, livb112 on FTP) and ask them to explain how this could possibly happen if poker was purely a game of luck. Posted by GaryQQQ
we don't want poker to be taxed so lets just say its pure gambling, and you cant make a living out of it(little do tbf), tell people you are a stock broker or summat,..if you are lucky enough to play poker for a living that is..
In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling : Possibly I feel into the trap there but I said that to try and explain why I thought backing horses or any sport betting was different to poker that's all. If you place a bet on a horse there is nothing you can do alter the outcome. You are relying on someones elses skill to win that bet for you. I know there is skill involved and to place bets can involve a vast amount of knowledge about form etc. But unlike poker you can't influence the outcome. Maybe I shouldn't have lumped Roulette in with it as that is definateley gambling with no skill involved. I don't know if it's the same for most people but if someone mentions gambling it's a natural thing to think of Horse Racing before anything else. Posted by FlyingDagg
But you can't control the outcome in poker either. If I get it in on the flop as a 90% favourite I can't control what cards hit next. That's how I lose that situation roughly 10% of the time.
In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling : any individual hand or bet may be a gamble in your sense of the word, but good poker players don't gamble - they play percentages - they use their skill at deciphering the info in the hand, along with past experiences based on similar hands, and notes on the same people, to make evaluated bets. i find there are two main types of people who play poker - those who like to gamble - and those who don't - and there are enough of the latter to confirm to me that poker isn't just about gambling. my analogy is to relate poker to chess - but with a big dollop of chance on top. so you can be "lucky" enough to beat phil hellmuth* in any one hand - but you won't do so in the longer term - why - because over the long term his skill overwhelms the luck factor. but the reason many of us play is that in the short term we might beat phil. * insert preferred poker pro name here Posted by GELDY
This is kind of the definition of "good" gambling.
If you pay money to enter a poker tournament then the only way you are going to see a return is if you use a certain amount of skill - you cannot win a tourney by luck alone.
However..................
If I have a wager on a player who is playing in a tourney, then that is gambling as I have no control over the outcome. Unless I have a wager on bearlyther of course, in which case it's less of a gamble as i'm more likely to see a return
Ive got to the stage where if im asked what are you doing with yourself these days? I tell them im an equity analyst its so much easier! Posted by bearlyther
we don't want poker to be taxed so lets just say its pure gambling, and you cant make a living out of it(little do tbf), tell people you are a stock broker or summat,..if you are lucky enough to play poker for a living that is.. Posted by WHOAMI196
very wise words, 100% gambling - tax free goodness
just tell people you are an unemployed bum, who sits around all day playing computer games online
I sigh when I have to explain to people what I do for money. In a nutshell it is Gambling. Either use the analogy of the coinflip where you get more when you win than when you lose or just say you're an online investment account manager
loved reading this thread as i can relate to it in every sense..
what i get from my work mates is "its a slippery slope" and that i be in the gutter!!! really annoying
im not a +ev player but dont drink or gamble.. i just enjoy playing poker. i spend less on poker than most people spend on thier hobbies.. ie i may deposit £20 and play a few mtts in one night as entertainment. if i lose people say i have a problem as iv wasted £20.. what gets me is the people who say this often go down the pub drinking playing pool etc etc and spend the same on their entertainment!! whats the difference
Yep - just say your an internet entrepreneur - will get more love this way and less hassle.
I think i've finally learnt that its just not worth bothering to try to and explain online poker to anyone, ever.
The only way i think i'll discuss it in the future with non-poker mans is if they see me playing and ask me what i am doing with a genuine child like curoisity and interest/other than that F them... I'm an internet entrepreneur baby.
Comments
it's all about the ChallenGe, theBuZZ & THE fun/fun,fun. ELE_MENT...
Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.
Dont kid yourself otherwise. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are at the game. Obviously the point to make is that gambling with an edge is no bad thing.
What I love about poker is you can sometimes get disproportionate odds. Unless you know a very ropey bookie, where else are you gonna get even money with your AA to beat AK aipf despite being a huge 90+% favorite! Or better yet get even money on the flop with 100% chance of winning (i managed to get it in with quads vs a lower set)
As proof show them Olivier Busquet's Sharkscope graphs (Adonis112 on PS, livb112 on FTP) and ask them to explain how this could possibly happen if poker was purely a game of luck.
However..................
If I have a wager on a player who is playing in a tourney, then that is gambling as I have no control over the outcome. Unless I have a wager on bearlyther of course, in which case it's less of a gamble as i'm more likely to see a return
very wise words, 100% gambling - tax free goodness
just tell people you are an unemployed bum, who sits around all day playing computer games online
what i get from my work mates is "its a slippery slope" and that i be in the gutter!!! really annoying
im not a +ev player but dont drink or gamble.. i just enjoy playing poker. i spend less on poker than most people spend on thier hobbies.. ie i may deposit £20 and play a few mtts in one night as entertainment. if i lose people say i have a problem as iv wasted £20.. what gets me is the people who say this often go down the pub drinking playing pool etc etc and spend the same on their entertainment!! whats the difference