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Haemophile Hand #1
BorinLoner
Member Posts: 3,863
Hello.
For whatever reason I'm not able to reply on the thread you started. There's also a strange grey bar over the middle of the screen on that page. Don't know how that's happened.
Anyway, the "LMAO" in your thread title suggests that you don't genuinely want feedback on those hands. If you do really want people to offer advice on those hands, then you may find that some of it is a little brutal. There will be no sugar coating so I hope you're prepared for that...
If other people are having the same strange problems that I had with the original thread, I suggest posting responses here.
For whatever reason I'm not able to reply on the thread you started. There's also a strange grey bar over the middle of the screen on that page. Don't know how that's happened.
Anyway, the "LMAO" in your thread title suggests that you don't genuinely want feedback on those hands. If you do really want people to offer advice on those hands, then you may find that some of it is a little brutal. There will be no sugar coating so I hope you're prepared for that...
If other people are having the same strange problems that I had with the original thread, I suggest posting responses here.
Comments
After a quick look at your hands I would say you are limping in way to much and betting to small when you hit.
Edit. I have just seen your post in the BBV section and I think you should really look how you play your hands before blaming the RNG and saying its a fix.
only had a quick glance at them, but main problem i took from them is your playing realy raggy hands and limping in with them while short stacked for the tables, will have another look later but i did recognise hand 1 from another post you mentioned it on
to the people who were trying to give me advice i've been limping in lately because i've seen nearly every hand go wrong for the past week so been a bit afraid to commit myself what sort of bets/raises would you guys suggest for the hands in question thankyou
Right. I'll leave just the one hand on this thread, so people can comment on it. I'll start new threads for each of your other hands, assuming I'm able to copy and paste those as well.
I think discussion of the mysterious grey bar should stop now and discussion of the poker should begin. lol
You really should sit down with the maximum amount. A full pull-up on most cash tables is 100 Big Blinds, so on a 5p/10p table (NL10) you should be sitting down with £10. If you can't afford to do that within your bankroll then you should play lower stakes so you don't go broke. Good Bankroll Management (BRM) for a break-even recreational player would usually require you to have at least 20 buy-ins for a limit. So if you wanted to play at NL10, you should have at least £200 in your account. That's if you're a long-term break-even player and I assume you're not there yet. I'd suggest just starting off at NL4 until you have more experience and I notice that your other hands are at that level.
On to this hand:
Pre-flop:
You've had the action limped to your Big Blind and you have K8. You min-raise to 20p and get three calls.
There are several issues with your pre-flop raise here:
1) Your hand is not very good. K8 is unlikely to be the best hand of four pre-flop so when you raise you're very likely putting more money into the pot when you're behind. It's also very difficult for K8 to make a really big hand on the flop: We need to hit two-pair or better to be comfortable with our hand and that happens very infrequently. If we only hit one-pair, say a King, we're unlikely to be called down by a hand we're a long way ahead of as anyone putting alot of money into the pot is likely to need either a bigger made hand than top-pair with an eight-kicker, or a big draw.
2) You're in the second worst position at the table. As the Big Blind, you will have to act second of four on every street (flop, turn and river) and this means that you will be acting without seeing any information from the players yet to act. Playing in position allows us to see what our opponents do before making our decisions and that's a huge advantage. If we have to act first, it's harder to bluff and it's also harder to get value from our big hands. It's basically harder to do everything when we're out of position. Even top professional players would lose money if they had to play every hand out of position. We want to play as many hands as possible from the Dealer Button and as few as possible from Under The Gun or in the Blinds.
So when we're out of position we should be more reluctant to increase the size of the pot. We should usually need a much stronger hand to raise out of position than we would need in position.
3) If you had a big hand such as AA or KK, you'd want to make your raise bigger to i) get as much money in the pot as possible when you know you have the best hand, and ii) try to reduce the number of players you're playing against. If we would raise big here with AA or KK, we need to make our raise size the same with any hand which we intend to raise. If we raise big with our big hands and raise small with our weak hands, it's much easier for our opponents to work out what type of hand we have. That's obviously going to be very bad for us. By making the same raise with AA as we make with 99, QJ or 67, we balance our range and make it more difficult for our opponents to define our hand strength. Balancing our range is extremely important.
4) Making a minimum raise is not big enough to make any of the limpers fold. If they've limped in for 10p, they won't fold their hand for another 10p. This means our bluff doesn't stand any chance of winning the hand pre-flop.
So pre-flop, our raise only has the effect of inflating the size of the pot while we're holding a weak hand in one of the weakest positions at the table. It also guarantees that we still see the flop four-handed and leaves us with a very difficult problem on any flop we don't hit big. These are all great reasons to not raise pre-flop at all. With K8 in the Big Blind, if it's limped to us by players that have position on us, we should just take the free flop and check. If we had a big hand we could make a raise but this raise would never be a minimum raise.
When we're inexperienced players the best way to value our pre-flop raise size is to always stick to the "3x + 1" rule. So we should make our raise three times the size of the big blind and add one big blind for every limper. In this hand that would mean our pre-flop raise would be 60p, if we had a hand that's worth raising.
On The Flop:
You've flopped top-pair and it's checked by the small blind. I like the bet here and considering the size of your stack, I like the sizing too. Our bets after the flop should always be in relation to the size of the pot and here you've bet half-pot. This is the smallest that we should generally make our bets post-flop (except in unusual circumstances). The sizing is fine because with your stack, you're probably only ever going to get it in after hitting this hand and this board is too wet to check with so many players in the hand. By not betting more, we allow others to think that we may yet fold, so they can try to bluff us. We also allow ourselves the opportunity to fold our hand if there is action from more than one of our opponents that gives us the strong impression that our hand is losing. If you have the best hand, you want to charge people holding a draw and if one player raises or moves all-in over your bet, it's too likely that they're holding a drawing hand for you to fold top-pair.
This is the problem that your small stack size and your pre-flop raise has given you: Any bet you make is going to commit you to play for all your money but your hand isn't very strong. You almost have to bet but if you get too much action you don't know if you're getting your money in good. If you had started the hand with a full 100BB stack, you could still get away from the hand if you found yourself in a sticky situation.
On The Turn:
Now we've hit top two-pair and we should really believe that our hand is likely to be best. Any flopped three-of-a-kind would likely have raised because there were so many draws on the flop and anyone playing a set (three-of-a-kind when our hole cards are a pair) would want to get more money in to charge those draws. 67 has just hit the straight but we can't afford to be afraid of that and we really need to go with our hand now. I like that you bet but your bet size again is a little bit off I think.
We have only £2.42 back, the pot is £1.60 and we bet full-pot. This bet should either be smaller, say 80p, to draw in those players who are too stubborn to fold a draw or it should be a shove. If we shove for £2.42 into £1.60 our opponents can believe that we're actually weak and just desperately trying to bluff them off their hand. Generally speaking, shoving the turn here would be bad because we'd have alot more money in our stack. Here, though, it wouldn't be so bad. However when we bet £1.60 and leave ourselves 82p back, it doesn't look as though we're desperate so doesn't look that weak and it won't tempt players to come along with their draws either. I definitely prefer betting 80p here as it allows our opponents to continue with a wider range of hands and therefore is better value for us.
Yet again, our small stack size has handicapped us and made it very difficult for us to play our hand. If our opponent is playing a draw, then it's difficult for him to perceive that he has the implied odds to continue in the hand so it's tough for us to get paid off.
Everything that happens after we get our money all-in, including the result, is irrelevant to how we actually played the hand. When we get our money in on the turn we are ahead. That's good news and we should be happy about that. However, we always need to look at how we played the hand and whether the decisions we made throughout the hand were the most profitable options available to us in the long-term. If we played this hand a thousand times, would our choices see us make a profit or a loss? If we made different decisions, would we make more money or less?
We need to view every hand as though it is one hand in a thousand (or more) So the result of any one hand is not significant, only the decisions we made are.
Sorry if I've used any lingo that you don't know. Just mention it and someone will clear it up.
The buy-in point has obviously been well covered.
1. Ideally don't play K8 out of position, not sure I'd be playing this anywhere but if I was on the button / if I am in the big blind and can see a flop for free.
2. It's good that, having decided to play K8, you raised. But look to make the raise more meaningful. Roughly 3 x big blind + 1 big blind for each limper. In this case you have three limpers so look to raise by around 50p (to a total pre-flop bet of 60p)
3. Good enough bet on the flop. Not sure I'd continuation bet out of position into 3 people if I didn't improve my hand, but when a King comes out it is good to bet. Just be wary of what people may have if calling.
4. I figure most times you will lose your hand when the 8 comes, given the way the hand was played to this point. If the other player has successfully set-mined then good luck to them, if they have 67 then good luck to them. At least you still have an out on the river if a K or 8 comes. You just got very unlucky - only possible criticism is to go back to point 1 - don't play K8 out of position.
I'm a bit surprised to see supercrazy do this to be honest, not sure he/she played the hand all that well and usually when I'm at their table would expect to see more strength rather than limping through only to gamble with a middle pair and draws. Can't work out what hand they would have put Haemophile on to be making this play on the turn?
Maybe I'm being harsh though, because I still have them down as a far better player than me!
seriously stop posting, it's obvious it's someone having laugh
Maybe :S
and yeah i agree with you i was bleeding money but the luck was so bad the only hands i really made anything on in that period was when i went on tilt and raised on a 36 suited and hit a pair of sixes and a 48 off suit which landed a straight i mean seriously what sane person would een call these hands
cmon you know what your name means right - bleeding !!
Sorry if I goit this wrong but my poker mind tells me your someone else and these are set up hands
As you were....