Live - Decision hand at Luton - Thoughts please

BigMikeDBC

Ok, so this hand pretty much ended the main event at Luton for me this weekend and it's been screwing me up ever since lol. Would like to know people's thoughts please. Blinds are 100/200 at this stage.

Am in the BB with about 8,500 and picked up Kd10d. It folds round to MP where the guy limps (he turned up an hour late and has only played one hand before this) and he has about 5,800.

It folds to the button, who's been playing fairly aggressively and like to see flop in position. He makes it 600 to go, SB folds, I flat and original limper calls too.  

Flop comes Qd 9c 8d. I check, original limper checks and the button c-bets 1,500. I call with the flush draw and gutshot straight draw. Original limper shoves, button folds. We.....

GREGHOGG

I prefer a fold pre, although a peel isnt awful... 

I crai on the flop, assuming the button has a similar stack to you, or more. 

As played, i probably call due to the amount in the pot, think we are getting a fairly decent price, but im sheet at maths... Will let others post on this as i am not sure.

BorinLoner

Fold pre-flop. Playing out of position to an aggressive button and an unpredictable limper is not a recipe for success. Doing that with a hand like KT that's easily dominated is a recipe for disaster.

When this flop comes, against the aggressive player's c-betting range, I'd like you to check-raise more than check-call. Your hand is King-high at this point and your equity in the hand is going to plummet if you miss the turn. If you hit the diamond on the turn, your hand is going to be pretty transparent and you shouldn't be able to get paid very much. If you check-raise here you give yourself a good chance to take the pot down on this flop with the semi-bluff. If one of your opponents wants to get it in, you're probably going to need to hit your flush draw but that's why it's a semi-bluff - We have lots of outs if we're called.

As it is, you have to call 3700 to win 10100? Is that right?

If that's right, I think you need about 27% chance to win and, unless your opponent has the nut-flush draw, you have to call. You're getting the right odds with your flush and straight draws. If he does have the nut-flush draw, you're in the mire.

Basically, you can avoid it by folding pre-flop and the decisions are alot easier if you check-raise the flop. You've taken a very passive line and that's made life difficult for you.

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: Live - Decision hand at Luton - Thoughts please:

Fold pre-flop. Playing out of position to an aggressive button and an unpredictable limper is not a recipe for success. Doing that with a hand like KT that's easily dominated is a recipe for disaster. When this flop comes, against the aggressive player's c-betting range, I'd like you to check-raise more than check-call. Your hand is King-high at this point and your equity in the hand is going to plumet if you miss the turn. If you hit the diamond on the turn, your hand is going to be pretty transparent and you shouldn't be able to get paid very much. If you check-raise here you give yourself a good chance to take the pot down on this flop with the semi-bluff. If one of your opponents wants to get it in, you're probably going to need to hit your flush draw. As it is, you have to call 3700 to win 10100? Is that right? If that's right, I think you need about 27% chance to win and, unless your opponent has the nut-flush draw, you have to call. You're getting the right odds with your flush and straight draws. If he does have the nut-flush draw, you're in the mire. Basically, you can avoid it by folding pre-flop and the decisions are alot easier if you check-raise the flop. You've taken a very passive line and that's made life difficult for you.
Posted by BorinLoner

This

BorinLoner

Actually, having run the numbers it looks like a profitable call even if he turns over Ad9d, thanks to your King and Jack outs. He has to have specifically AdJd for your pot odds to make this the wrong call.

Of course, you have to make the decision against his probably range of hands so the call is definitely correct at this point.

BigMikeDBC

Thanks for the comments ppl. He turned over Q9o in the end if any1 interested and obv held - I think I'm probably getting called anyway if I crai there so, like you say, best to fold pre!! 

profman15

Hi mike

Personally i dont see anything wrong of a call to a 3xbb raise after a limp. I'd be thinking that the limper would fold but fine if he calls as it gives you the odds to look for your flush if you 2 suiter on flop .

I've very quickly tried to work out the pots odds as i think  you need 3300 to win 108000 so its 1 to 3.27 and yet you have winnig outs of 9 +3 for str8 or flush draws though he can catch Fh (i won't involve runner runner for you or his FH )but approx 48% equity so surely you have the odds to call the AI. Is this wrong...sorry if the chip counts are out......It may be lower eventually as the 48% is an approx calc.

Curt360x27

You could raise pre if the button has been taking advantage of the limper before by isolating him in position, as in this spot the button's range should be pretty wide and your going to take it down with a 3bet. This obv depends on the limpers tendencies (does he limp fold a lot, does he limp his entire range or raise his strong and limp weak hands etc.) and how the opener reacts to being 3bet. Peeling however is not to bad as your unlikely to be facing a strong range anyway but folding is probs best. 

On the flop you should never c/c. Once you've flopped this big on this flop just play it like a set and you won't go to far wrong.

BigMikeDBC

In Response to Re: Live - Decision hand at Luton - Thoughts please:

Hi mike Personally i dont see anything wrong of a call to a 3xbb raise after a limp. I'd be thinking that the limper would fold but fine if he calls as it gives you the odds to look for your flush if you 2 suiter on flop . I've very quickly tried to work out the pots odds as i think  you need 3300 to win 108000 so its 1 to 3.27 and yet you have winnig outs of 9 +3 for str8 or flush draws though he can catch Fh (i won't involve runner runner for you or his FH )but approx 48% equity so surely you have the odds to call the AI. Is this wrong...sorry if the chip counts are out......It may be lower eventually as the 48% is an approx calc.
Posted by profman15

Thanks profman. I think I ultimately had the odds to call the AI, even with two of my outs no longer being clean when he turned the Q9o. Obv need to work on my pf game!

BigMikeDBC

In Response to Re: Live - Decision hand at Luton - Thoughts please:

You could raise pre if the button has been taking advantage of the limper before by isolating him in position, as in this spot the button's range should be pretty wide and your going to take it down with a 3bet. This obv depends on the limpers tendencies (does he limp fold a lot, does he limp his entire range or raise his strong and limp weak hands etc.) and how the opener reacts to being 3bet. Peeling however is not to bad as your unlikely to be facing a strong range anyway but folding is probs best.  On the flop you should never c/c. Once you've flopped this big on this flop just play it like a set and you won't go to far wrong.
Posted by Curt360x27

Thanks mate. Didn't have a lot of info on the limper, as this was only his second hand of the game, but defo liking the idea of the 3-bet pre. I think my game is too passive atm so defo something I need to work on. Thanks for the advice.

BigMikeDBC

In Response to Re: Live - Decision hand at Luton - Thoughts please:

once u called pre and on this flop u say guy c-bets 1500  this is when i shove u have enuff f/e and if u do get called your not in bad shape
Posted by IDONKCALLU

Cheers idcu. It looks like the preferred move, other than fold pre, is to crai. Defo had f/e like you say, although it was difficult to know exactly what the button had as he kept a v. dirty stack. Thanks for commenting mate!