Jacks OOP facing raise v good reg - NL4

The_Don90

Hand ID for my self to post later action -  597650557

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceannhellSmall blind£0.02£0.02£3.57The_Don90Big blind £0.04£0.06£3.96 Your hole cardsJJ   blaggaaFold    Alarthur50Fold    MR REGRaise £0.20£0.26£5.94annhellFold    The_Don90????

Ok this is v a well respected reg of this level. One I've played very few hands with and will know i havent played much in the last few months. 

My basic questions here are, knowing our opponent is quite tight, and profitable, should we be 3betting here, and what do we do if 4bet? 

beaneh

look don

I haven't read the thread, haven't looked at the hand, just the thread title.

WHAT STAKES ARE YOU PLAYING?

why does it matter if the person is a reg AT THAT STAKE.... surely that implies something about whether they are a 'good' reg or not. 

it's mutually exclusive, good reg/nl4........ that's my hint

rancid

flat, oppo's 4 betting range has you in bad shape

Unless you think oppo will flat or 4 bet worse and oppo opens 5x for all range - what does oppo raise to with 99 for example
How often does oppo open -

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Jacks OOP facing raise v good reg - NL4:

look don I haven't read the thread, haven't looked at the hand, just the thread title. WHAT STAKES ARE YOU PLAYING? why does it matter if the person is a reg AT THAT STAKE.... surely that implies something about whether they are a 'good' reg or not.  it's mutually exclusive, good reg/nl4........ that's my hint
Posted by beaneh

Beaneh I don't see the need to get into a pointless arguement with you over this. 

However in my defence as my Opening post says, basically ive hardly played a hand in months. Think ive played 2 or 3 tournaments, some live games and about 3 hours of online cash in about 5 months. I feel a little rusty and my desision making feels completely off. Particularly in situations like these v a nit opponent. 

My thought process seems to be at the moment, "oh jacks 3bet" without the consideration of, what happens if im 4b? What would this oppo peel with, what would they 4bet with. 

Now maybe my title suggests otherwise, although i dont see why, it was a genuine question. The player in the hand i have a great deal of respect for. In my opinion the best player to have played NL4 in the time i have, and i include myself in that braket. 

I normally avoid said opponent in hands. 

beaneh

You really don't get why i've highlighted that part of your post clearly, don't avoid anyone at nl4.

Mutually exclusive means two things cant happen together. Ie there are no good regs at nl4....

that said. you should be able to create strategies that exploit their strategy.

you say they are tight therefore when you 3bet JJ their 4bet range will crush you, either you 3bet to call a 4bet because you are also 3betting them a load preflop with weaker holdings, or you just peel JJ and 3bet air alot. 

either way it's not how do you play jacks, it's how do we play versus our opponent first of all then what hands can we do value/bluffs with. then you look at what hand you hold and play it from there.

its nl4 they wont play well post flop, they wont play well preflop. you probably cant 3b/5b JJ in profitably against a tigher robot so don't 3b5b......... create another line that exploits his tendencies.

similarly posting a hand then getting defensive when you are given good advice really doesn't help. it can be fun and have humour in it but it doesn't help if you are actually trying to improve.

if I bother to post in the clinic anymore you should really read my post and think about the general things i'm saying rather than looking for a specific press this button with this hand it's "the play".

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Jacks OOP facing raise v good reg - NL4:

You really don't get why i've highlighted that part of your post clearly, don't avoid anyone at nl4. Mutually exclusive means two things cant happen together. Ie there are no good regs at nl4.... that said. you should be able to create strategies that exploit their strategy. you say they are tight therefore when you 3bet JJ their 4bet range will crush you, either you 3bet to call a 4bet because you are also 3betting them a load preflop with weaker holdings, or you just peel JJ and 3bet air alot.  either way it's not how do you play jacks, it's how do we play versus our opponent first of all then what hands can we do value/bluffs with. then you look at what hand you hold and play it from there. its nl4 they wont play well post flop, they wont play well preflop. you probably cant 3b/5b JJ in profitably against a tigher robot so don't 3b5b......... create another line that exploits his tendencies. similarly posting a hand then getting defensive when you are given good advice really doesn't help. it can be fun and have humour in it but it doesn't help if you are actually trying to improve. if I bother to post in the clinic anymore you should really read my post and think about the general things i'm saying rather than looking for a specific press this button with this hand it's "the play".
Posted by beaneh

I didnt mean to get defensive in relation to the hand at all Beaneh. I'm happy to take critism. And i fully agree that your right in the expoiting thing. 

I posted this hand because i felt my thought process was all wrong. Bad thought process = Bad desisions. Im pretty sure we can agree on that. 

Thanks for the feedback. Please dont take my responces as defensive. Pretty stessed due to non-poker things atm so my posts probably comming out completely wrong. 

YOUNG_GUN

Erm u cannot 4 bet , i would 3 bet here tho

DeuceAK_47

Do they always open to 5x? if so il probably 3bet for value in this spot and fold to a 4bet, if they were UTG i would just flat call pre:-)

jugglegeek

3-bet and get it in. Reasons:

• You don't have any particularly good specific reads on the player, other than he's not a total fish.
• You don't get max value out of any Ax hands in his 4-betting range by flat calling
• You are out of possition so calling makes the hand very difficult to play post flop vs an unknown range
• The raise comes from the button so a good reg should have a wider opening range and a wider 4-betting range

Reasons for flatting:

• You might flop a jack.
• He might tripple barrel you with top pair on a ten-high flop with KT/AT

Just knowing the player is a "well respected reg at NL4" is not a reason to get out of line in a totally standard blind vs button situation. Plus it's never a bad idea to show the regs that you get it all in pre with jacks :-P if he shows up with QQ+ then you still have 20% and can bink it ;-)

If this was from MP vs UTG open then things are different. But the possition of the villian and your possition make it totally standard to get it in here