As I said, IDONK, I can't keep bluffs in by flatting the flop. If they have AK or AQ, they don't fold for the rest and if they have total air, they don't put the rest in. I'm shoving the flop for £7 more. I have no fold equity. Posted by BorinLoner
U HAVE TO SHOVE FLOP , REALLY DNT SEE POINT IN CALLIN! AK MIGHT NT BARRELL ON A BLANK ANYWAY AND IF HE DOES HAVE 1010 JJ HES GETTIN IT IN
5betting 180bb with QQ is appalling on sky. I wish it wasn't but everyones so pathetic and terrible they couldn't get TT in for 100bb if their pet came and pressed the buttons. 100bb I might peel 4bet with intention to only fold a few A/K flops, 180bb GL ever being good with QQ. also what happens when we peel with QQ and they check the flop? Posted by beaneh
On this particular flop, I suppose we say "I wasn't expecting that" and just check back and see what they do on the turn. On Ace-high and King-high flops, it's tough to see any reason to bluff with QQ if they check. Wet boards might just be boards to get it in on.
Erm... So you like calling pre-flop, then folding to the c-bet on non-Queen flops only because we are never facing anything worse than QQ?
All of this is predecated on the assumption that the 4-better can never believe that I might be "at it". I hate assuming that people don't notice that sort of thing. Maybe it's best to do that, though.
In Response to Re: NL10: QQ For 180BB : On this particular flop, I suppose we say "I wasn't expecting that" and just check back and see what they do on the turn. On Ace-high and King-high flops, it's tough to see any reason to bluff with QQ if they check. Wet boards might just be boards to get it in on. Erm... So you like calling pre-flop, then folding to the c-bet on non-Queen flops only because we are never facing anything worse than QQ? All of this is predecated on the assumption that the 4-better can never believe that I might be "at it". I hate assuming that people don't notice that sort of thing. Maybe it's best to do that, though. Bah! You lot are going to turn me into a nit! Posted by BorinLoner
they will check more than you think
they will check give up with random bluffs
they will check to trap AA/KK randomly sometimes.
they will min cbet sometimes giving us odds to draw etc
In Response to Re: NL10: QQ For 180BB : they will check more than you think they will check give up with random bluffs they will check to trap AA/KK randomly sometimes. they will min cbet sometimes giving us odds to draw etc Posted by beaneh
Well, since I've played probably only around 1000 hands of micro-stakes cash on Sky, I will have to bow to your experience. Perhaps they will check the flop some of the time.
If they do c-bet, though, are we forced to fold and say that if they're bluffing (as unlikely as that is) or holding AK, they've just outplayed us? If they can possibly have AK or other bluffs, is it not a call with 2:1 odds? (I suppose that's a question for PokerStove) I still don't believe that players are going to flat the 3-bet with AK in this spot, especially with the flat from the Small Blind. lol
It is a fair point that we can set-mine. £2.40 for about £23 before the short stack gets it in. Got to be said it does seem weird to set-mine with QQ but it makes sense.
I think I and others get caught up on the guideline advice you'd give to beginner players. Time to get past that, I think.
Ta for the input chaps. Shame I'm such an enormous donkey.
Beaneh raises a good point which is over looked by team 10/20nl. Villian giving us great price to mine, he almost never bluffing because now there is a dead sidepot. not really got a clue what samboram45 is on about we are looking to out flop Villan not outplay him. Posted by bolly580[/QUOT
tht was my point ...... hence why bl should fold pre or jam , cn u really be set minin with qq???
tht was my point ...... hence why bl should fold pre or jam , cn u really be set minin with qq??? Posted by samboram45
If they're not folding a Queen high flop with AA or KK - which they wouldn't - then yes. You're guaranteed to get paid and odds of 23:2.4 are better than 7.5:1, which are the odds of hitting your set. If they don't have AA or KK then QQ is the best hand anyway.
Beaneh raises a good point which is over looked by team 10/20nl. Villian giving us great price to mine, he almost never bluffing because now there is a dead sidepot. not really got a clue what samboram45 is on about we are looking to out flop Villan not outplay him. Posted by bolly580[/QUOT tht was my point ...... hence why bl should fold pre or jam , cn u really be set minin with qq??? Posted by samboram45
at no point has any reasoning been given for a jam to be any where near kinda good.
I have been watching this with interest on my phone (cant post on the phone).
My view on the hand is that pre flop is fine. Of course we are 3-betting with QQ, why would nt we. Now, dpending on the size of the 4 bet we possibly face is the key in my opinion. If he 4 bets quite a bit bigger which takes the odds off us to set mine then i think we can get a typical range at NL10 down to AA,KK and sometimes QQ (unlikely) and simply fold to the 4 bet pre flop.
Now, the key to this hand is that we look like we could be playing for stacks with the 4-bet range we have applied to him and his betsizing allows us mathematically to 'set mine' with remaining stacks as they are, even with Q's. I think we can safely fold the flop instead of jamming it knowing we are behind a heck of alot of the time here. Even if you add AK to his range we are still behind enough to AA and KK to fold and move on to the next hand.
There is no differance to set mining JJ or QQ here
mmmm what calls a 5 bet jam, mmmmmm lets see............
Don't think people trust themselfs to fold a 7 high flop
Not many I would jam QQ against at NL10 and expect to be ahead, you need specific reads to jam QQ verus randoms - anyway this is 180bb deep isn't it - if so it's never a jam
In Response to Re: NL10: QQ For 180BB : at no point has any reasoning been given for a jam to be any where near kinda good. if you want to jam or fold. fold. i'm calling and ima hit a queeney Posted by beaneh
Comments
U HAVE TO SHOVE FLOP , REALLY DNT SEE POINT IN CALLIN! AK MIGHT NT BARRELL ON A BLANK ANYWAY AND IF HE DOES HAVE 1010 JJ HES GETTIN IT IN
Erm... So you like calling pre-flop, then folding to the c-bet on non-Queen flops only because we are never facing anything worse than QQ?
All of this is predecated on the assumption that the 4-better can never believe that I might be "at it". I hate assuming that people don't notice that sort of thing. Maybe it's best to do that, though.
Bah! You lot are going to turn me into a nit!
If they do c-bet, though, are we forced to fold and say that if they're bluffing (as unlikely as that is) or holding AK, they've just outplayed us? If they can possibly have AK or other bluffs, is it not a call with 2:1 odds? (I suppose that's a question for PokerStove) I still don't believe that players are going to flat the 3-bet with AK in this spot, especially with the flat from the Small Blind. lol
I hate this. Wish I hadn't posted it now.
I think I and others get caught up on the guideline advice you'd give to beginner players. Time to get past that, I think.
Ta for the input chaps. Shame I'm such an enormous donkey.
My view on the hand is that pre flop is fine. Of course we are 3-betting with QQ, why would nt we. Now, dpending on the size of the 4 bet we possibly face is the key in my opinion. If he 4 bets quite a bit bigger which takes the odds off us to set mine then i think we can get a typical range at NL10 down to AA,KK and sometimes QQ (unlikely) and simply fold to the 4 bet pre flop.
Now, the key to this hand is that we look like we could be playing for stacks with the 4-bet range we have applied to him and his betsizing allows us mathematically to 'set mine' with remaining stacks as they are, even with Q's. I think we can safely fold the flop instead of jamming it knowing we are behind a heck of alot of the time here. Even if you add AK to his range we are still behind enough to AA and KK to fold and move on to the next hand.
mmmm what calls a 5 bet jam, mmmmmm lets see............
Don't think people trust themselfs to fold a 7 high flop
Not many I would jam QQ against at NL10 and expect to be ahead, you need specific reads to jam QQ verus randoms - anyway this is 180bb deep isn't it - if so it's never a jam