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What is the outcome?

larry1959larry1959 Member Posts: 170
edited December 2012 in The Poker Clinic

This is a hand I played earlier today in a bounty hunter... I raised UTG a min raise with KQ... my questions are.. a) was it a bad move or should the raise have been bigger and b) what was the outcome of the hand..
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceASmall blind 40.0040.004591.25""Big blind 80.00120.002545.00 Your hole cardsQK   larry1959Raise 160.00280.005582.50""Fold    ""Fold    ACall 120.00400.004471.25BCall 80.00480.002465.00Flop  KAA   ACheck    BCheck    larry1959Bet 360.00840.005222.50ACall 360.001200.004111.25BFold    Turn  K    Check     Check    River
The river was incidental and made no difference to the hands in question...
I will post the outcome later...I would like to see who would do what in this situation...

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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2012
    This is around the time I consider reducing my raise size from 3x, but depends on the table.

    I'd probably raise between 200 and 240 but it's not a serious deal breaker.

    C-betting is fine and a good size too (imo)

    So you've both checked the turn.

    It's hard to give advice on the river cos you're OOP so we need to know what he does first.

    If he checks, then I'd stick in a value bet and fold to a raise. If he bets the river himself it's a bit of a horrible spot but I'd call providing the bet was reasonable. If he does something mad like jam, you ARE beat.
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  • larry1959larry1959 Member Posts: 170
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: What is the outcome?:
    This is around the time I consider reducing my raise size from 3x, but depends on the table. I'd probably raise between 200 and 240 but it's not a serious deal breaker. C-betting is fine and a good size too (imo) So you've both checked the turn. It's hard to give advice on the river cos you're OOP so we need to know what he does first. If he checks, then I'd stick in a value bet and fold to a raise. If he bets the river himself it's a bit of a horrible spot but I'd call providing the bet was reasonable. If he does something mad like jam, you ARE beat.
    Posted by Lambert180
    All I will say is that I made the correct choice of play...
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited December 2012
    Decent raise size pre im reducing my raise sizes when blinds go to 25/50 personally i make it 180 here pre as you get some more folds when you add a few digits on over a min raise but i think 160 is still good. Hes 1st to act on the river therefore you need to put his 1st action in on the river or we cant make a decision.  If he checks im value betting.  If he bets river it depends alot on his sizing.  But you need to post his 1st action on the river otherwise its impossible to make a decision!
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: What is the outcome?:
    In Response to Re: What is the outcome? : All I will say is that I made the correct choice of play...
    Posted by larry1959
    Either ....

    he bet and you called.

    or

    He checked and you bet 




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  • larry1959larry1959 Member Posts: 170
    edited December 2012
    Ok guys....this is how I played it and the thinking behind the play...

    First off..the min raise utg  was to try and get a read on any big hands out there. Also a min raise gives no info on the strength or weakness of your hand, and, this table being particularly tight, hardly any raises were being called without the player having a reasonable starting hand....it folded around to the blinds and the SB and BB flat called... flop came down...SB and BB both checked, uncertain if I was ahead, I bet around 75% of the pot, which, to my mind showed enough strength that my opponents would fold if their hands hand missed the flop or induce a raise if they had the nuts..the small blind flats and the BB folded..

    With the small blind flat calling, I put him immediately on A *?..and checked the turn even though it gave me the f/h...I had him on a bigger one even though he checked too. The river came a 4, so made no difference to either hand.. I checked the river hoping to go to show down without a bet..Villain shoved all in.. I folded my hand, even tho the temptation to call was there.

    He never showed his hand but said in chat he'd had A6...whether he did or not is irrelevent.... if he was bluffing..well played to him.. a risk to take considering our comparable chip stacks..in that position as far as I was concerned I was behind..

    P.S.
    6 months ago I would have snap called out of pride  (how dare he ruin my f/h) or hoping he was bluffing and if not put it down to being unlucky, not for making a misguided or bad call...
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: What is the outcome?:
    Ok guys....this is how I played it and the thinking behind the play... First off..the min raise utg  was to try and get a read on any big hands out there. Also a min raise gives no info on the strength or weakness of your hand, and, this table being particularly tight, hardly any raises were being called without the player having a reasonable starting hand....it folded around to the blinds and the SB and BB flat called... flop came down...SB and BB both checked, uncertain if I was ahead, I bet around 75% of the pot, which, to my mind showed enough strength that my opponents would fold if their hands hand missed the flop or induce a raise if they had the nuts..the small blind flats and the BB folded.. With the small blind flat calling, I put him immediately on A *?..and checked the turn even though it gave me the f/h...I had him on a bigger one even though he checked too. The river came a 4, so made no difference to either hand.. I checked the river hoping to go to show down without a bet..Villain shoved all in.. I folded my hand, even tho the temptation to call was there. He never showed his hand but said in chat he'd had A6...whether he did or not is irrelevent.... if he was bluffing..well played to him.. a risk to take considering our comparable chip stacks..in that position as far as I was concerned I was behind.. P.S. 6 months ago I would have snap called out of pride  (how dare he ruin my f/h) or hoping he was bluffing and if not put it down to being unlucky, not for making a misguided or bad call...
    Posted by larry1959

    You are 2nd to act on the river, this couldn't have happened. 

    He just shoved and u folded?

    I would have done too, good fold!

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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited December 2012
    Yes as dohhhhhhh says he was first to act so you couldnt have checked.  But yea if he over bet jams here in this spot its an easy fold.
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  • larry1959larry1959 Member Posts: 170
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: What is the outcome?:
    In Response to Re: What is the outcome? : You are 2nd to act on the river, this couldn't have happened.  He just shoved and u folded? I would have done too, good fold!
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Thats what I meant... was interupted mid stream lost track..or could it be the wine..lol....
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: What is the outcome?:
    Ok guys....this is how I played it and the thinking behind the play... First off..the min raise utg  was to try and get a read on any big hands out there. Also a min raise gives no info on the strength or weakness of your hand, and, this table being particularly tight, hardly any raises were being called without the player having a reasonable starting hand....it folded around to the blinds and the SB and BB flat called... flop came down...SB and BB both checked, uncertain if I was ahead, I bet around 75% of the pot, which, to my mind showed enough strength that my opponents would fold if their hands hand missed the flop or induce a raise if they had the nuts..the small blind flats and the BB folded.. With the small blind flat calling, I put him immediately on A *?..and checked the turn even though it gave me the f/h...I had him on a bigger one even though he checked too. The river came a 4, so made no difference to either hand.. I checked the river hoping to go to show down without a bet..Villain shoved all in.. I folded my hand, even tho the temptation to call was there. He never showed his hand but said in chat he'd had A6...whether he did or not is irrelevent.... if he was bluffing..well played to him.. a risk to take considering our comparable chip stacks..in that position as far as I was concerned I was behind.. P.S. 6 months ago I would have snap called out of pride  (how dare he ruin my f/h) or hoping he was bluffing and if not put it down to being unlucky, not for making a misguided or bad call...
    Posted by larry1959


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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited December 2012
    I prefer a bigger raise pre, but if min raise is your standard size it's ok

    Flop your reasoning for betting is poor. We don't want worse hands to fold, esp in a situation where they have so little equity if behind. Putting in money to be raised off the pot isn't a great outcome either. If you put someone who calls on Ax then betting is bad, think about why

    I prefer checking flop readless 3way ip. You are either wa/wb and you won't usually get 3 streets from worse anyway. I don't hate betting though as I think worse Kx hands along with sometimes gutshots and pps call

    Rest is fine, river a trivial fold imo even to a smaller bet, K is a terrible turn for you despite the fact it fills you up
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