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is a FH too great a risk to call my straight?
craigcu12
Member Posts: 3,960
just limp pre
fold otf
turn fine
I think it's quite close on the river. his lead otr is kinda weird after you raised ott, J10/JK beat u but youre ahead of everything else so i just mehhhhhhhhhhhh and shove. #getdatvalue
Comments
well i didn't shove on the river but still made the call and when you see the hand he had well it's no wonder hand reading is so hard
Imo you should be going 3x (sometimes 4x at low levels) with an extra 1x for every limper. So your raise pre should have been to 25p, which then means he has to call 20p to win 45p, much worse odds
You must remember why you're making this bigger raise size, though. We don't necessarily want our opponents to always fold pre-flop but we want to force them to make difficult decisions. If they call, we can win a bigger pot on the flop with a c-bet and our position allows us to get away easily when we're behind. If we had a big hand like AA or KK, we'd want them to call a bigger raise than 15p anyway. It goes back to balancing our range, which I mentioned in the other thread.
I don't agree with percival on this one and I like the raise. I think so much of the time we can either win the pot pre-flop or take it down with a c-bet on the flop that raising this situation is going to be very profitable. I also don't think that the implied odds of suited connectors and small pocket pairs are that great in unraised pots, so it's unlikely that we can build a big pot when we do flop big hands like sets, straights, etc if we overlimp... I would overlimp if we were in the blinds but on the button I think we can raise more profitably.
So I do raise it pre-flop in this situation and I'd make it about 25p, as Lambert says.
I don't hate c-betting this flop as our half-pot bet doesn't have to work that often (1/3 times) to break-even, as long as we recognise that this flop is not the best for us because it's likely that our opponents have something on it - Kx, Jx, QT type hands are all likely holdings for limp-callers. As I said in the other thread, though, your bet size can give your hand away. You advocated betting full-pot on that hand with AA yet on this hand with 9-high, you only bet half-pot. If your opponents notice this, you're in trouble.
On the turn I think you should raise a bit bigger. You want to be able to set him all-in on the river without it being an overbet, so raise the turn enough to make the effective stack size (the shorter stack) about the same as the pot. So in this case you can raise about 50p more on the turn. If he has a hand to pay you off, he'll either call or raise. If he folds then he wouldn't have paid you anymore anyway so don't worry about it.
I think it's overrated how often we'll get paid in a multi-way, limped pot when we flop big, even at these levels. It will happen occasionally but I think we make more in the long-run by taking control pre-flop and c-betting the flop.
We only get in tricky spots post-flop if we're unable to recognise when we're beat. If we can't let go of one-pair with a weak kicker then we have a problem in the game overall, never mind in these specific situations. If we can let go when we meet resistance there should really be no problem for us down the streets.