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Tough spot against aggro reg

bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
edited January 2013 in The Poker Clinic
bearlytherSmall blind £0.25£0.25£140.08jacklBig blind £0.50£0.75£124.17 Your hole cardsAA   ..........Raise £1.50£2.25£216.60thebil123Fold    hhamza162Fold    bearlytherRaise £4.75£7.00£135.33jacklFold    .............Call £3.50£10.50£213.10Flop  5102   bearlytherBet £6.00£16.50£129.33.............Call £6.00£22.50£207.10Turn  K   bearlytherBet £13.00£35.50£116.33............Raise £29.00£64.50£178.10bearlytherCall £16.00£80.50£100.33River  9   bearlytherCheck    ..........All-in £178.10£258.60£0.00      

Tough spot against aggro reg.  Reg definately capable of bluffing in this spot but how often?

Comments

  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited January 2013
    depends what you range UTG 3x/call 3 bet / call flop / raise turn
    together with what oppo would raise flop with or not

    then maybe you have answer )

    what hands do you beat that raise turn, Kxhh


  • beanehbeaneh Member Posts: 4,079
    edited January 2013
    3b bigger and fold the turn and river.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited January 2013

    being OOP i would say a pot size flop bet would be wiser.
    he might have thought you were holding a suited connector KQs+ or holding AK
    his turn i bet would go with either a QJs or a set.
    as for river C/F or i would do a value bet then fold.

  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2013
    In Response to Re: Tough spot against aggro reg:
    being OOP i would say a pot size flop bet would be wiser. he might have thought you were holding a suited connector KQs+ or holding AK his turn i bet would go with either a QJs or a set. as for river C/F or i would do a value bet then fold.
    Posted by craigcu12
    Why do you prefer a pot-size bet? Can you explain your reasoning?
  • mj8bsmj8bs Member Posts: 214
    edited January 2013
    In Response to Re: Tough spot against aggro reg:
    In Response to Re: Tough spot against aggro reg : Why do you prefer a pot-size bet? Can you explain your reasoning?
    Posted by BorinLoner
    was about to ask the same question!
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited January 2013
    In Response to Re: Tough spot against aggro reg:
    In Response to Re: Tough spot against aggro reg : Why do you prefer a pot-size bet? Can you explain your reasoning?
    Posted by BorinLoner
    well because we sitting OOP we don't want to allow the villian to feel he has the confidence to raise even though he might be behind. he could easily be holding a KQ KJ K10s or AK flush draw and thought he would be ahead on so decided to raise then when the check is made he can bluff the river.
    what i see from doing a pot size bet on the flop is i know the villian must have something weather it is a flush draw or set so then on the turn doing a simular size bet if he raised then you can be sure to fold as he would be more likely to hold a set.
    also when it comes to the river the villian will know you showed strength on the flop so if you bet he would only likely want to shovee with a set.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2013
    In Response to Re: Tough spot against aggro reg:
    In Response to Re: Tough spot against aggro reg : well because we sitting OOP 1) we don't want to allow the villian to feel he has the confidence to raise even though he might be behind. he could easily be holding a KQ KJ K10s or AK flush draw and thought he would be ahead on so decided to raise then when the check is made he can bluff the river. what i see from 2) doing a pot size bet on the flop is i know the villian must have something weather it is a flush draw or set so then on the turn doing a simular size bet if he raised then you can be sure to fold as he would be more likely to hold a set. also when it comes to the river the villian will know you showed strength on the flop so if you bet he would only likely want to shovee with a set.
    Posted by craigcu12
    This highlighted portions are things you need to think about.

    1) If our opponent doesn't have the best hand then we do want them to put more money in the middle. If that means they raise with a draw or even just a pair then we should be happy about it. We absolutely do not want them to fold worse hands like draws if we're a favourite against them. When our opponent puts money into the pot when they're behind, without having the correct pot odds to do so, we make money.

    2) This is a big problem. If we view a pot-size bet as always meaning that we have a hand, that makes us really easy to play against. If our opponent knows that we have a hand and can never be bluffing it means they can play absolutely perfect poker against us: They either just fold, knowing they're beat or they call with their draws and better made hands. It means they never get their money in bad against us.

    We don't want our opponents to be able to distinguish between our made hands and our bluffs simply based on our bet size. We have to balance our range; making the same size bets with our value hands as we make with our bluffs so our opponents can't tell which we have. So if bearlyther would bet three-quarters of the pot on this board with just KQ, then he should also bet three-quarter-pot with AA or a set.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited January 2013

    i might be better off just not bothing with these post and stick to the micro stakes post because i think these table are nothing like my tables.
    with my tables being micro stakes mega bets and very tight is the way to play because their is too many fish and too much weak betting
    when you say trying to avoid making it so all hands look strong with bets well if i hold say a set or the board was not a flush draw i would be slower and the same can be said if i were IN POSITION. it is with  being OUT OF POSITION that makes me feel like betting larger with over pairs if i got a set or it had no flush draws i might C/R or C/C and only bet on the turn

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited January 2013
    You have to mix it up.

    Imagine you check/raise on this flop with sets and ONLY sets, you basically make it ridiculously easy for a competent player to play against yuo.

    You need to sometimes check/raise with draws, sometimes sets, sometimes 2pr etc.

    Personally, I don't think I'm ever check/raising when I've 3bet pre.

    Don't get into bad habits at low levels, generally the best way to play works at pretty much every level. Full potting all the time with the goods is never gonna be a great strategy unless you're playing 1 particular person you know to be terrible. Even against complete fish full pot makes them fold weak hands too often
  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited January 2013
    I made the fold even tho it was a similar spot to another hand i had posted recently and this was against s very aggro player i just didnt feel it at the time and folded.
  • simonnatursimonnatur Member Posts: 330
    edited January 2013
    Seems like JQhh would make perfect sense
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