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NL10: Flopped Set And The Nightmare Turn Card

BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
edited January 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Simple question really, what do we do on the turn?

Villain is pretty tight. No moves at all in his locker. He just looks for big hands and usually plays them fast and his pre-flop raising range is fairly narrow, though not super-nitty. He's seen me being an aggro monkey and has responded by calling my raises and 3-bets with a wider range pre-flop, then playing fit-or-fold on the flop.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Yoko Small blind  £0.05 £0.05 £13.66
BorinLoner Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £17.90
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
   
John Fold     
Paul Fold     
George Fold     
Ringo Fold     
Yoko Raise  £0.30 £0.45 £13.36
BorinLoner Raise  £1.00 £1.45 £16.90
Yoko Call  £0.75 £2.20 £12.61
Flop
  
  • Q
  • A
  • 10
   
Yoko Check     
BorinLoner Bet  £1.10 £3.30 £15.80
Yoko Call  £1.10 £4.40 £11.51
Turn
  
  • J
   
Yoko Check    

Comments

  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited January 2013
    check


  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited January 2013
    Check, and call a small bet if as long as it gives you the odds to draw to your FH (assuming some implied odds obv).
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited January 2013
    bet & don't fold @_)

    seriously u have to bet, if oppo has no moves then if your c/r --- what u going to do
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited January 2013
    Let's assume AQ is unlikely due to 3 of the Qs being out, how many hands are we already behind to and how many are we ahead of AND would call another bet on this soaking wet board given that he's tight, has called a 3bet pre, and has called the flop despite playing fit/fold poker?
  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited January 2013
    Bet the flop bigger, if he plays fit or fold it doesn't matter if you make it 1/2 pot or 4/5 pot he will call/raise if he has it or fold if it doesn't and so you wanna be getting dat fat value.

    Turn is really lame, if you bet then it's only really for protection against the Ah (provided its not accompanied by another heart/ or a K) and as described it seems unlikely villain will be doing much calling with much worse then a straight. 

    Prob just take the wimpy route and do teh pot control and hope for a pair up. Also he's gonna have blockers to your house alot as his range is going to consist of lots of broadway 2pairs + straights.

  • montymolemontymole Member Posts: 10
    edited January 2013
    why only half pot cbet otf? looks like a 'i missed' betsizing..

    edit: NColley beat me to it..
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2013
    In Response to Re: NL10: Flopped Set And The Nightmare Turn Card:
    why only half pot cbet otf? looks like a 'i missed' betsizing.. edit: NColley beat me to it..
    Posted by montymole
    Good.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2013
    I bet half-pot because I'd bet half-pot with everything. In a 3-bet pot, it's supremely easy to stack my opponent anyway and after making it half-pot there's a great chance for him to check-raise his Aces, two-pair, etc. and still come along with his Jacks, Tens or Kings. He might play fit or fold, but if he's holding one of these he isn't calling a big bet. Also, if I suddenly want to take off on flops like this with massive hands I'm going to struggle to balance my range in other hands without making big bets... which I don't want to do since I play about four times as many hands as anyone else at the limit.

    I'm not really concerned about my flop bet size. I've heard all the arguments (and made most of them) and I'm happy with that. Of course there are lots of scare cards that can hit on the turn, but there are more safe cards and I'm happy I can judge which is which in position.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2013
    So we're happy with the check on the turn. I faced this on the river. Happy days. :(
    Turn
      
    • J
       
    Yoko Check     
    BorinLoner Check     
    River
      
    • 3
       
    Yoko Bet  £4.40 £8.80 £7.11
  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited January 2013
    If you folded wp.

    P.S Don't bother balancing at 10nl, I haven't seen a single 10nl reg that is capable of adjusting correctly. You can play an extremely exploitable strategy and completely crush 10nl because the regs just aren't good enough to exploit you even if they pick up certain reads.
  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG Member Posts: 7,155
    edited January 2013
    easy fold
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2013
    I've mostly stopped paying off these obvious value bets although I do still call sometimes, thinking "Now I know I've never seen him bluff before... but this time my top-pair might be good." I just need to improve my discipline.

    I did fold here, by the way, and I agree that it was easy.
  • bolly580bolly580 Member Posts: 603
    edited January 2013
    If someone else posted this hand you'd write a 3x paragraph reply of what to do.

    Yet when your in the spot your puzzled? Have confidence in your game and play your way through this reltively simple spot.
  • seppeseppe Member Posts: 287
    edited January 2013
    In Response to Re: NL10: Flopped Set And The Nightmare Turn Card:
    If someone else posted this hand you'd write a 3x paragraph reply of what to do. Yet when your in the spot your puzzled? Have confidence in your game and play your way through this reltively simple spot.
    Posted by bolly580
    HUGE + 1
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2013
    I wasn't confused, really. I just wanted confirmation after a losing session that I'm not a total imbecile. lol

    Thankfully the responses support the theory that I am not. Though I don't regard this as conclusive proof just yet.
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited January 2013
    check back, boat up, stack his 10J. #ownage #howtomake$$$ #ilikemoney #sleepingpattern
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited January 2013
    The thing is BL, morning btw )

    Just range oppo, what does oppo call 3 bet's with oop to you bvb

    what K or hh are in oppo range

    you say oppo is tight but calls your 3 bets wide

    also if oppo plays hands fast why is oppo checking turn

    prefer bet turn, oppo got no moves so oppo not going to c/r air
    if your called at turn and lead into - then that's pretty strong

    think the check on turn leaves you open, but given reads and a/p it's an easy fold

    would lol if oppo had 1010 )
    saying that could easily be AK couldn't it

    fink your bet sizing is fine, think this deep and that flop maybe you should go bigger


  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited January 2013
    villain playing straight forward means we can check on the turn and get value on a non-heart river by betting smallish, by betting ott we're not getting value from anything else vs a tight straight forward player
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited January 2013
    so we saying oppo doesn't 4 bet AK bvb oop but calls w/AK&KQ
    does oppo always 4 bet AA/KK

    if so then why can't we say we put AQ/A10/AJ/10'S/JJ in that range too that calls pre & checks the turn
    If oppo is calling wider K10/KJ/K9 etc... and we have reads then easy check on turn i guess

    suppose likewise do we include some hh hands, can't think of any tbh but.....depends if oppo calls that wide in this set up

    Can we certinatly say it's always AK/KQ

    depends what we call tight but then calls oop wide to 3 bets ... & then fit or folds

    edit: since when has yoko been a Beatle )
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited January 2013
    In Response to Re: NL10: Flopped Set And The Nightmare Turn Card:
    so we saying oppo doesn't 4 bet AK bvb oop but calls w/AK&KQ does oppo always 4 bet AA/KK if so then why can't we say we put AQ/A10/AJ/10'S/JJ in that range too that calls pre & checks the turn If oppo is calling wider K10/KJ/K9 etc... and we have reads then easy check on turn i guess suppose likewise do we include some hh hands, can't think of any tbh but.....depends if oppo calls that wide in this set up Can we certinatly say it's always AK/KQ depends what we call tight but then calls oop wide to 3 bets ... & then fit or folds edit: since when has yoko been a Beatle )
    Posted by rancid
    Lol... since there were 4 beatles and 5 villians :p
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