lol at people still thinking the big cash pots at tilt arent real they are , and mostly are a pittance to these players live action Posted by barnsie
Good post makes me laugh that people think its not real how do they explain that a 21yo kid like durrr is a mulitmillionaire with ft pokers play money ;-) they can't accept the fact these guys play pots that are worth their house or more they just don't get it,and your right about the live games they have 2k-4k with monster buy ins.
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : Good post makes me laugh that people think its not real how do they explain that a 21yo kid like durrr is a mulitmillionaire with ft pokers play money ;-) they can't accept the fact these guys play pots that are worth their house or more they just don't get it,and your right about the live games they have 2k-4k blinds with monster buy ins. Posted by JAMIEP
I think what benny is saying is that these things are possible, and they are all easily possible. Where there is big money at stake, there are bound to be some underhand goings on.
The ` full tilt bankrolling their big players` debate, for instance. It is of course possible. That doesnt mean it is happening, it doesnt mean it is not. I can see certain advantages of ft doing this as it is good publicity, but as someone has mentioned, it is not going to make white van man deposit $$$$$ and try to beat everyone at poker.
If it is happening.....does it really matter. It is only another form of advertising. Its not online rigging or anything.
I`m not sure it would be worth their while as, even though it is not ripping anyone off, if this was found out it would seriously tarnish their reputation
Collusion - I would say that is rife in the online world. Maybe not so much here, but where stakes are big it would be too tempting for some.
Online, and live, poker is never going to be 100% squeeky clean. Just think of the Ultimate bet and `potripper` scandal. I bet the die hard area 51ers were having champagne breakfasts when this news broke... and if you look into how this got exposed was pure chance. Well that and the one with the superuser account making some crazy call with i think T high to take down a huge tourney. If the greed wasnt there, and he was happy taking 2nd or 3rd which was still big $$$$, this could still be going on today
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : Good post makes me laugh that people think its not real how do they explain that a 21yo kid like durrr is a mulitmillionaire with ft pokers play money ;-) they can't accept the fact these guys play pots that are worth their house or more they just don't get it,and your right about the live games they have 2k-4k with monster buy ins. Posted by JAMIEP
A) These monster pots are not only played by the famous who have obviously earned a fortune doing this but there are plenty of high stakes appearances and dissapearances that happen with unknows, the sites end up all over the forums and they get a lot of free advertising. Not saying it is happening but as these are sponsered players they why not create an account and drop a half mill to one of them. You'll get 5 fold that in advertising easy
the "monster buy in's" for cash games... the Big game in vegas involving Ivey, Kid Poker, Hellmuth etc is capped pot half the time so no player goes busto
Getting back on the subject of the thread. I think what benny is saying is that these things are possible, and they are all easily possible. Where there is big money at stake, there are bound to be some underhand goings on. The ` full tilt bankrolling their big players` debate, for instance. It is of course possible. That doesnt mean it is happening, it doesnt mean it is not. I can see certain advantages of ft doing this as it is good publicity, but as someone has mentioned, it is not going to make white van man deposit $$$$$ and try to beat everyone at poker. If it is happening.....does it really matter. It is only another form of advertising. Its not online rigging or anything. I`m not sure it would be worth their while as, even though it is not ripping anyone off, if this was found out it would seriously tarnish their reputation Collusion - I would say that is rife in the online world. Maybe not so much here, but where stakes are big it would be too tempting for some. Online, and live, poker is never going to be 100% squeeky clean. Just think of the Ultimate bet and `potripper` scandal. I bet the die hard area 51ers were having champagne breakfasts when this news broke... and if you look into how this got exposed was pure chance. Well that and the one with the superuser account making some crazy call with i think T high to take down a huge tourney. If the greed wasnt there, and he was happy taking 2nd or 3rd which was still big $$$$, this could still be going on today Posted by OMahonyO
Good comment, I agree Benny was saying it could happen and I think between the lines it reads that just because you see big names playing for big stakes with confidence on the sites that sponsor them, dont take it for granted that lower down the ladder it wont be beyond belief that players conspire to take advantage of you! Not me of course, I wouldnt pay for their extra broad band fees at the moment ;-)
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : A) These monster pots are not only played by the famous who have obviously earned a fortune doing this but there are plenty of high stakes appearances and dissapearances that happen with unknows, the sites end up all over the forums and they get a lot of free advertising. Not saying it is happening but as these are sponsered players they why not create an account and drop a half mill to one of them. You'll get 5 fold that in advertising easy the "monster buy in's" for cash games... the Big game in vegas involving Ivey, Kid Poker, Hellmuth etc is capped pot half the time so no player goes busto Posted by ACESOVER8s
Full tilt don't need free advertising they sponsor the most famous player phil ivey and other world class pros who get seen on tv all the time.They always advertise during breaks and have banners,posters etc around the room's in televised games and are also one of if not the biggest site in the world.I have seen english players play them stakes at full tilt ben grundy james aikenhead and luke schwartz do they play with fake play money as well?
Is Phil Ivey the most famous player, what about Daniel Negreanu or even the old favourite Doyle Brunson? And as part of the design team for that site isnt Ivey a stakeholder? And wasnt his largest cash win as the front man for a group of Pros? Would that mean that he doesnt always play with his with his own money?
Is Phil Ivey the most famous player, what about Daniel Negreanu or even the old favourite Doyle Brunson? And as part of the design team for that site isnt Ivey a stakeholder? And wasnt his largest cash win as the front man for a group of Pros? Would that mean that he doesnt always play with his with his own money? Just a few questions that spring to mind.... ;-) Posted by Rattious
Most of the top pros play with pieces of each other to even out variance its standard in them high stakes cash games.I never said they play with their own money all the time.I am pointing out to people who think full tilt high stakes games are fake just to get customers are wrong that is all.
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : Most of the top pros play with pieces of each other to even out variance its standard in them high stakes cash games.I never said they play with their own money all the time.I am pointing out to people who think full tilt high stakes games are fake just to get customers are wrong that is all. Posted by JAMIEP
Phil Ivey is never going to bust Chris Ferguson - they all have a share of each other and probably a stake in the site, just because its real money doesnt mean its a real profit and loss situation - bennys point was the size of the rake and he didnt say specifically fulltilt. Although I am sure that site appreciates your efforts to defend them.
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : Most of the top pros play with pieces of each other to even out variance its standard in them high stakes cash games.I never said they play with their own money all the time.I am pointing out to people who think full tilt high stakes games are fake just to get customers are wrong that is all. Posted by JAMIEP
Your right all the top pro's own pieces of each other, and nobody anywhere through the thread other than those defending the "Top Pro's" have said that it is pro's using fake money ????
It was a question as to if a site would have a "Fake" high stake game running to attract attention, if you go around some of the forums on line you will find plenty of substatiated rip offs from companies doing unreputable things in online poker so your blind if you think it's not possible. As to if it IS happening of not........ We will never know but to say Full Tilt don't need advertising?????? then why do they do SO MUCH. And EVERY company wants as much FREE advertising as poss.
Ivey, Leaderer etc are all the top sponsered pro's who set the company up so yes they are probably still all stakeholders. The biggest part of this thread i feel is on collusion and cheating from all fronts that is POSSIBLE not guaranteed.
Do people play and collude? Yes i can guarantee you have friends on most sites with Skype, MSN, Multiple laptops & Accounts all sitting at a table with 1 spare seat which they leave for people to come along, drop their money, and then leave and they wait for another Victim. I've seen it done and been asked to take part (not on this site before anyone starts lol) but it's not poker and i play the game for fun, if i wanted to be a conman i'd go back to selling timeshare
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : Your right all the top pro's own pieces of each other, and nobody anywhere through the thread other than those defending the "Top Pro's" have said that it is pro's using fake money ???? It was a question as to if a site would have a "Fake" high stake game running to attract attention, if you go around some of the forums on line you will find plenty of substatiated rip offs from companies doing unreputable things in online poker so your blind if you think it's not possible. As to if it IS happening of not........ We will never know but to say Full Tilt don't need advertising?????? then why do they do SO MUCH. And EVERY company wants as much FREE advertising as poss. Ivey, Leaderer etc are all the top sponsered pro's who set the company up so yes they are probably still all stakeholders. The biggest part of this thread i feel is on collusion and cheating from all fronts that is POSSIBLE not guaranteed. Do people play and collude? Yes i can guarantee you have friends on most sites with Skype, MSN, Multiple laptops & Accounts all sitting at a table with 1 spare seat which they leave for people to come along, drop their money, and then leave and they wait for another Victim. I've seen it done and been asked to take part (not on this site before anyone starts lol) but it's not poker and i play the game for fun, if i wanted to be a conman i'd go back to selling timeshare Posted by ACESOVER8s
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : Your right all the top pro's own pieces of each other, and nobody anywhere through the thread other than those defending the "Top Pro's" have said that it is pro's using fake money ???? It was a question as to if a site would have a "Fake" high stake game running to attract attention, if you go around some of the forums on line you will find plenty of substatiated rip offs from companies doing unreputable things in online poker so your blind if you think it's not possible. As to if it IS happening of not........ We will never know but to say Full Tilt don't need advertising?????? then why do they do SO MUCH. And EVERY company wants as much FREE advertising as poss. Ivey, Leaderer etc are all the top sponsered pro's who set the company up so yes they are probably still all stakeholders. The biggest part of this thread i feel is on collusion and cheating from all fronts that is POSSIBLE not guaranteed. Do people play and collude? Yes i can guarantee you have friends on most sites with Skype, MSN, Multiple laptops & Accounts all sitting at a table with 1 spare seat which they leave for people to come along, drop their money, and then leave and they wait for another Victim. I've seen it done and been asked to take part (not on this site before anyone starts lol) but it's not poker and i play the game for fun, if i wanted to be a conman i'd go back to selling timeshare Posted by ACESOVER8s
I mainly have been saying i don't believe high stakes cash games are fake and i have gave good reason's for my thought's so i don't need to go over that again some people will agree with me and some won't such is life.Collusion probably does happen on every poker site that i do agree with for the reason's you pointed out but it won't scare me into not playing online poker i enjoy it as much as i did when i first started out 5 years ago.
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : w tf i agree that collusion is one of the biggest issues that online poker faces. and will contiue to face for a very long time, as certain people will always try to find that extra edge. but i dont agree that FTP is sending emails around its sponserd pros and going 'ok lads just flip a few for a million to get the headlines'. cos it doesn't make sense, because the only people who are gonna be interested in a million dollar pot between Ivey and Durrr are gonna be poker geeks anyway. its not like its gonna be published in the sun and suddenly Dave the van driver runs home and logs onto FTP. Posted by scotty77
Great post even though it means i am a poker geek. lol
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : I mainly have been saying i don't believe high stakes cash games are fake and i have gave good reason's for my thought's so i don't need to go over that again some people will agree with me and some won't such is life.Collusion probably does happen on every poker site that i do agree with for the reason's you pointed out but it won't scare me into not playing online poker i enjoy it as much as i did when i first started out 5 years ago. Posted by JAMIEP
I'm 100% behind you on not being scared to play online, me neither. I think Benny just want's to make people aware of the possibilities. I'll play online as long as it's available because it's easier than travelling to Blackpool (my nearest Casino) to play all my poker. And as long as we don't over extend, and are aware of the possibilities then you have a certain amount of preperation for what you may face on the Virtual Felt. We all draw our own lines from the knowledge we have and i for instance don't play any where near the limit online that i would in a live game.
In Response to Re: Who's mugging Who!! : I'm 100% behind you on not being scared to play online, me neither. I think Benny just want's to make people aware of the possibilities. I'll play online as long as it's available because it's easier than travelling to Blackpool (my nearest Casino) to play all my poker. And as long as we don't over extend, and are aware of the possibilities then you have a certain amount of preperation for what you may face on the Virtual Felt. We all draw our own lines from the knowledge we have and i for instance don't play any where near the limit online that i would in a live game. Posted by ACESOVER8s
Yes i know what you mean the nearest casino to me is a hour drive and chuck in petrol costs food+drink etc.It is more convenient to play online for me and that i learnt the game online help's.All that i think about in threads like these it might put new potential customers off from playing online poker which we all agree we don't want to happen and im not talking about just this site every site.
Hi guys, The thread wasn't intended to put people off online poker, it was meant as a warning to all who play on any site. Also to remind the the security people who monitor these possibility's of what can happen mainly in ring games .......... because they are the ones we have to put our faith in .. !!
Interestin thread indeed it would take me a year to write a good reply as everyone is sort of right i guess.
Everypoker player plays different and has thier owns ways of doing things. This may be playing with thier own money, being staked 100% or selling pieces of them selves. Personally i always play with my own money and dont sell or swap %s with anyone. Will i continue this in the future ? who knows i have alot i want to do in the poker world over the next few years and that could involve being backed or selling pieces of my self to others if i wanted to play £1k - $10k events regulary.
One thing is i dont think people have condsidered yet is yes alot of players are backed by others and ask why ? Like me who has an OK bankroll but nothing near enough to justify playing huge events regulary its to play at that next level and test yourself, maybe look for that huge score that will change your life forever or ofc both. I mean some multi-millionaire players dont need to play but they do because pokerplayers like any "sportsmen" shall we say to give you an idea are very very competitive by nature and they want to WIN.
Then thiers the backers - clearly these have alot of money anyway and probably made it from poker / other sources via investments. These tend to be very smart people and have carefully looked at the person they have backed as a person and thier past poker results to consider whether or not the investment will yield a return, whether they wont run off after getting off to a bad start and will pay up if that result comes.
Regarding full tilt lately i think its like nearly every other poker site out thier at the moment. The top players know each other [not necessarily in person] and as they play to generally make money they only play the "fish" or unknown players because its more +ev [expeted value] to do so. They will play each other but only if a fish is present in a ring game or they really just wanna try prove they are the best ! [ competitive side ! ] like the durrr challenge vs antonious or his recent live one. Isildur was a case of the unknown player and durrrr got spanked hard consequently i think phill ivey/antonius/zigmund and brian townsend got all that money from isil. Durrr will be fine though as i think he gets 1.5 mill + a year from full tilt now and the above + others will happily back durrr if he needs it because he is that good.
anyway ill stop as i dont even know if this relates ha ... !
Interestin thread indeed it would take me a year to write a good reply as everyone is sort of right i guess. Everypoker player plays different and has thier owns ways of doing things. This may be playing with thier own money, being staked 100% or selling pieces of them selves. ......
....... Isildur was a case of the unknown player and durrrr got spanked hard consequently i think phill ivey/antonius/zigmund and brian townsend got all that money from isil. Durrr will be fine though as i think he gets 1.5 mill + a year from full tilt now and the above + others will happily back durrr if he needs it because he is that good. anyway ill stop as i dont even know if this relates ha ... ! Posted by Nutter5932
Some interesting reading here Nutter relating to the winners and losers with Isildur - looking further back in this feed they have details of his brief encounter with fullflush1 including the chat LOL there! There are also details of online chat relating to atleast some short term funding means, and comments on how different sessions end who stood up first.... seems isildur never stood first!
Comments
Boy oh Boy, am I glad I started this thread ... Tony, as the old saying goes !!
"Who can ya turn to" ....? Brilliant reading, loved it !!
I think what benny is saying is that these things are possible, and they are all easily possible. Where there is big money at stake, there are bound to be some underhand goings on.
The ` full tilt bankrolling their big players` debate, for instance. It is of course possible. That doesnt mean it is happening, it doesnt mean it is not. I can see certain advantages of ft doing this as it is good publicity, but as someone has mentioned, it is not going to make white van man deposit $$$$$ and try to beat everyone at poker.
If it is happening.....does it really matter. It is only another form of advertising. Its not online rigging or anything.
I`m not sure it would be worth their while as, even though it is not ripping anyone off, if this was found out it would seriously tarnish their reputation
Collusion - I would say that is rife in the online world. Maybe not so much here, but where stakes are big it would be too tempting for some.
Online, and live, poker is never going to be 100% squeeky clean. Just think of the Ultimate bet and `potripper` scandal. I bet the die hard area 51ers were having champagne breakfasts when this news broke...
and if you look into how this got exposed was pure chance. Well that and the one with the superuser account making some crazy call with i think T high to take down a huge tourney. If the greed wasnt there, and he was happy taking 2nd or 3rd which was still big $$$$, this could still be going on today
Would that mean that he doesnt always play with his with his own money?
Just a few questions that spring to mind.... ;-)
It was a question as to if a site would have a "Fake" high stake game running to attract attention, if you go around some of the forums on line you will find plenty of substatiated rip offs from companies doing unreputable things in online poker so your blind if you think it's not possible. As to if it IS happening of not........ We will never know but to say Full Tilt don't need advertising?????? then why do they do SO MUCH. And EVERY company wants as much FREE advertising as poss.
Ivey, Leaderer etc are all the top sponsered pro's who set the company up so yes they are probably still all stakeholders. The biggest part of this thread i feel is on collusion and cheating from all fronts that is POSSIBLE not guaranteed.
Do people play and collude? Yes i can guarantee you have friends on most sites with Skype, MSN, Multiple laptops & Accounts all sitting at a table with 1 spare seat which they leave for people to come along, drop their money, and then leave and they wait for another Victim. I've seen it done and been asked to take part (not on this site before anyone starts lol) but it's not poker and i play the game for fun, if i wanted to be a conman i'd go back to selling timeshare
Also to remind the the security people who monitor these possibility's of what can happen mainly in ring games .......... because they are the ones we have to put our faith in .. !!
Everypoker player plays different and has thier owns ways of doing things. This may be playing with thier own money, being staked 100% or selling pieces of them selves. Personally i always play with my own money and dont sell or swap %s with anyone. Will i continue this in the future ? who knows i have alot i want to do in the poker world over the next few years and that could involve being backed or selling pieces of my self to others if i wanted to play £1k - $10k events regulary.
One thing is i dont think people have condsidered yet is yes alot of players are backed by others and ask why ?
Like me who has an OK bankroll but nothing near enough to justify playing huge events regulary its to play at that next level and test yourself, maybe look for that huge score that will change your life forever or ofc both. I mean some multi-millionaire players dont need to play but they do because pokerplayers like any "sportsmen" shall we say to give you an idea are very very competitive by nature and they want to WIN.
Then thiers the backers - clearly these have alot of money anyway and probably made it from poker / other sources via investments. These tend to be very smart people and have carefully looked at the person they have backed as a person and thier past poker results to consider whether or not the investment will yield a return, whether they wont run off after getting off to a bad start and will pay up if that result comes.
Regarding full tilt lately i think its like nearly every other poker site out thier at the moment. The top players know each other [not necessarily in person] and as they play to generally make money they only play the "fish" or unknown players because its more +ev [expeted value] to do so. They will play each other but only if a fish is present in a ring game or they really just wanna try prove they are the best ! [ competitive side ! ] like the durrr challenge vs antonious or his recent live one. Isildur was a case of the unknown player and durrrr got spanked hard consequently i think phill ivey/antonius/zigmund and brian townsend got all that money from isil. Durrr will be fine though as i think he gets 1.5 mill + a year from full tilt now and the above + others will happily back durrr if he needs it because he is that good.
anyway ill stop as i dont even know if this relates ha ... !
http://www.gutshot.com/bforum/showthread.php?t=33980&page=31