typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega

alimay

as a new player all these % are baffling, my o/h says after the flop use the rule of 4 and 2 does this make sense to anyone? 

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

Devonfish, let me first agree that eight hands is not a relevant sample size. Now we've got that out of the way: I doubt these are the last eight times you've had AA, because all of them go to showdown. Post all the hands that are folded without a showdown, too, or your data will be biased to favour one argument or another. All of those hands that didn't go all-in pre-flop do not relate to the 80% figure. That figure is only applicable when all the money goes in before the flop. On the hands against 44 and 56 you got your money in as a big underdog and drawing dead, respectively, not as an 80% favourite. If you get 100BB or more in to the pot post-flop with just one-pair, you should expect to be behind more often than not. If you get it in with AA pre-flop you will win more than 80% of the time in the long-run - You can't carry that forward to all-in's post-flop, though.
Posted by BorinLoner

thank you for the reply borin,
yes,you make good sense with what u say mate,and for a change i'm not getting moaned at for my post.  lol
yes agree these were all my AAhands that went to showdown,and were either wins/losses of more than £3
yes i had others i'm sure where players folded to me pre-flop.

yes,i also see now,how the 80% figure is only applicable if i go allin pre-flop,which i didn't on many hands here,did i...from memory.

thank you for taking the time to explain it to me properly and now i am a lot more wiser.
so i'm thinking then that i should be either looking to make a big raise with AA pre-flop,or better still get all the money in?

(* *)
   ^
dev

ps; just checked i did go all-in pre flop 5 times and won 3  lost 2  which again is i know a very sm sample but at least it shows a profitable win %   60%  and not the 37.5% that i thought earlier.  lol

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

as a new player all these % are baffling, my o/h says after the flop use the rule of 4 and 2 does this make sense to anyone? 
Posted by alimay

sorry not me mate....

but i don't know much myself....do i?  lol

devonfish5

how about KK?

this is an area that i am unsure about.
not as strong as AA obviously,but still a very strong hand.
would all-in pre-flop be profitable long term?
is going all-in very much player/situation dependant?

all help would be very much appreciated.
thank you

dev

TheHush

All-in pre-flop should usually be the desired outcome for KK (and AA) because if anyone sees a flop with a more marginal hand, they're more likely to hit something that beats you, or have a good draw to something that does if they see what their cards can connect. Remember, it's not all about winning ALL the money all the time, it's about winning the hand. Even if you just min-raise and everyone folds, at least you didn't lose.

If you have KK, and someone else has AA (or AK/AQ or pocket pair perhaps and hits their few remaining outs to leave you behind), then good luck to them, but usually KK and AA are miles ahead of everyone before you see a flop. Afterwards, the odds can often be much tighter and you don't neccessarily know where you are in the hand.

As an example, I slow-played AA earlier in 25p/50p cash (had it in the BB. Dealer raised to £1.50, I smooth called), and the board came out with Q high and two bricks with three diamonds. There was a little bit of cagey bet/calling on the flop to increase the pot to around £10. By the river, another low card and a fourth diamond meant anyone holding a 3 would have made a straight regardless of the other card they had, and any other diamond had a flush. I had the best hand, and was up against 99 (no diamonds), who potentially could have eventually led to a 4-bet had I 3-bet pre-flop, leading to the inevitable all-in. I made probably about £5 from the hand instead of about £80 or so. 

Moral of the story: Get the money in through careful raising. You're usually going to win. Also, 2p/4p is often full of beginners with small bankrolls who don't always know what they're doing and get lucky. You have to account for that if monster hands getv cracked too.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

All-in pre-flop should usually be the desired outcome for KK (and AA) because if anyone sees a flop with a more marginal hand, they're more likely to hit something that beats you, or have a good draw to something that does if they see what their cards can connect. Remember, it's not all about winning ALL the money all the time, it's about winning the hand. Even if you just min-raise and everyone folds, at least you didn't lose. If you have KK, and someone else has AA (or AK/AQ or pocket pair perhaps and hits their few remaining outs to leave you behind), then good luck to them, but usually KK and AA are miles ahead of everyone before you see a flop. Afterwards, the odds can often be much tighter and you don't neccessarily know where you are in the hand. As an example, I slow-played AA earlier in 25p/50p cash (had it in the BB. Dealer raised to £1.50, I smooth called), and the board came out with Q high and two bricks with three diamonds. There was a little bit of cagey bet/calling on the flop to increase the pot to around £10. By the river, another low card and a fourth diamond meant anyone holding a 3 would have made a straight regardless of the other card they had, and any other diamond had a flush. I had the best hand, and was up against 99 (no diamonds), who potentially could have eventually led to a 4-bet had I 3-bet pre-flop, leading to the inevitable all-in. I made probably about £5 from the hand instead of about £80 or so.  Moral of the story: Get the money in through careful raising. You're usually going to win. Also, 2p/4p is often full of beginners with small bankrolls who don't always know what they're doing and get lucky. You have to account for that if monster hands getv cracked too.
Posted by TheHush

hi Hush,
thank you for your thoughts mate,appreciated.

i have been so unsure as to how to play KK all this month really,and have even had sessions where i was actually folding them by design,pre-flop would you believe.
yes,i'm sure playing them really aggressively pre-flop is likely to be the best option,as you yourself just showed slow playing them you are losing value as well as increasing the risk of losing,i guess.

so for the next few sessions it's all-out agression,and let's see how we end up.

thanks again buddy

dev