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Opinions please
gazza127
Member Posts: 2,156
Main Primo tonight (was 3rd at the time and was still quite early).... Villain is relatively aggressive and doesnt like me stealing blinds having reraised back 3/4 times to shove me off his blinds.
Two questions:
1) Is my 4 bet too aggressive?
2) Can I fold after 5 bet shove?
Two questions:
1) Is my 4 bet too aggressive?
2) Can I fold after 5 bet shove?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| GRANDAD49 | Small blind | 100.00 | 100.00 | 5635.00 | |
| Villain | Big blind | 200.00 | 300.00 | 11835.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Boonicon | Fold | ||||
| david666 | Fold | ||||
| Lancelot11 | Fold | ||||
| gazza127 | Raise | 500.00 | 800.00 | 16300.00 | |
| GRANDAD49 | Fold | ||||
| Villain | Raise | 1200.00 | 2000.00 | 10635.00 | |
| gazza127 | Raise | 4500.00 | 6500.00 | 11800.00 | |
| Villain | All-in | 10635.00 | 17135.00 | 0.00 | |
| gazza127 |
Comments
And for what you have in the middle so far you can't fold imo, you just have to bite the bullet, and i take it you found yourself up against aces or kings.
or flat 3 bet
probably prefer flat 3 bet this deep
Your assuming oppo is 3 betting from the blinds very light, why can't oppo be 3 betting AQ/AJ - 10,'s etc..
Why would you 4 bet and fold out worse hands
You can't put that much of your stack over the line and consider folding imo
Will oppo 5 bet shove worse, or flat with worse
You say your betting for information, well the only information your going to get us some that you don't like -
Oppo shoves with bluffs/hands that beat you or oppo folds hands you beat
Best case scenrio for you when you 4 bet is you fold out prs, but you should consider that if you put these in oppo range - should you then fold when they 5 bet - do you also fold QQ ?
if your 4 betting for folds then you may aswell be holding ATC, because you want nice information - and that's them folding -
What happens if they call you 4 bet, what now )
Lol. All true.
I guess I was just unhappy with the way I played it as I dug myself a hole to get it all in so deep. I suppose I just wanted confirmation that I 4 bet too big....
If they call my 4 bet and i miss flop im royally fecked. I suppose I wasnt too unhappy at the time getting it all in pre, however I would have liked to be the one doing the shoving. Need to think more about what Im trying to achieve with each raise.
With those pot odds, you have to think that the villain's range for 5-betting all-in is exclusively AA or KK and can't include anything like AK, QQ or worse. Given that it's button v blind and you've described him as very aggro, you can be pretty sure that his range is wider than that. You can't fold here.
Moreover you need to examine your rationale for 4-betting. If you think your opponent is 3-betting a wide range, you can call to play your likely dominating hand in position, keeping his wide range in the hand. If you 4-bet and he folds, all you've accomplished is folding out weak hands and losing value. Flatting is a viable approach when we're reasonably deep and in this situation we're playing roughly 54BB effective. It's the best approach against a good player who won't call your 4-bet with worse hands and will only 5-bet with better, folding out everything you beat. You may get him to fold smaller pocket pairs, if he can be 3-betting those, but that's likely to be losing the value that our position gives us. Up against 66 with AK in position, we'll win more through the streets than we lose.
If we 4-bet, it has to be because we know on of two things will happen: Either our opponent will frequently call with worse hands or hands that he'll play fit or fold with, or he can possibly 5-bet with weaker hands. So, if we think he calls with a wide range and only and always 5-bets with his monster pairs, then we can 4-bet-fold. However, if those are our thoughts, then we need to 4-bet an amount that he can call but that won't commit us to the hand if he shoves. You've said that you think your 4-bet was too big and I agree. It's an amount that's made it easy for our opponent to play: He'll fold all his weak hands to this raise and will jam all of his big hands, knowing you can't fold.
4-betting would be really bad in this spot against a player who only either folds or 5-bet/calls solely with his massive hands. If that's the case then our 4-bet with AK is putting us in the situation of losing value from all of his weaker hands and getting it in only in spots where we're flipping or dominated.
Pretty much as rancid says.