I think Sky are taking a big step backwards. Standard of play will drop with more high variance touneys. IMO. If you want to play a good Deep Stack tourney then its got to be Pokerstars or any other site but Sky. Dtd's and team game only for me from now on then. And the mega stack on friday
The Thursday Night Bounty Hunters have always had the biggest numbers. BH on other nights have never done so well. Why? Because the people that really want BH have committed to the Thursday night ones.
What will happen now? The Thursday numbers will go down slightly as some players move to other nights due to increased choice. The players that don't like BH will move to another site or switch away from the ME & Mini. I suspect that the focus on the ME & the Jackpot will reduce.
It might work but it is a high risk strategy as the FB pages indicate that several regular players are now looking at alternative sites. Ultimately, if SKY make good business decisions, numbers will continue to rise. If they make bad business decisions then numbers will stop rising.
Sky ran a comp a few months back if you remember, asking what tournament's you want on Sky. My suggestion was a good old freezeout, £11 buyin 3k chips 12 minute clock. It got a fair bit of love and I think was the 2nd/3rd most popular. Sky introduced it with a £300 GTD, I thought it was a bit tight and said it should get around 100 runners... Well by the time the tournament started there were 7 players...! I think after late reg it got up to 24. The £11 BH's that run in the evening get between 150 and 250 players... Make of that what you will...
Have to agree with the majority here. Rebuys and BH tournaments are not the way I would have gone.
A mixture of 6 max, short stacks, short blinds and rebuy / BH. All of which leads to players looking to play shove or fold poker with any 2 cards.
for me we are left with shove or fold poker.
6 max site (gets the action going)
3 or 5 min blind levels (need to widen range of starting hands)
short stack start (100 bb after about 15 mins down to 20 bb if you dont play a hand)
BH or rebuy (invites people to play loose)
all i can see is find a hand and shove or dont find a hand and shove and hope to get lucky.
dont get me wrong there is a place for the above. it gets people involved and have a chance to make some money without making the final table. also new players may find this exciting.
but I cant ever see them changeing any of the live major wsop ept main events to this type of format.
have to think about why not so many people enter the deepstack main events.
for my 2 pennyworth wrong day wrong time
Try it on a Friday or sat night when people don’t have work the next day or make the start time earlier so it finishes earlier.
On an extra note try and add a deepstack semi 1 or 2 nights before as well as the normal semi. Having a short stack 3 min blind sat then a short stack 5 min semi into a deepstack dosent make sense.
I don't think I have a reputation as a moaner but I am left almost dumbstruck by this decision. Just take a look at GaryQQQ's thread and you already see a noteable lack of variety. Bounty hunters already dominated the MTT schedule and now they, turbo's and rebuys will constitute the entire MTT menu.
I understand the argument that you must give the people what they want and bounty hunters, turbo's and rebuys are Sky's best sellers. However, if you offer no variety, you narrow your customer base and become a manufacturer of a niche product. It's tough to see how a company that wishes to expand into the broader market can do so by narrowing it's product list.
Take the example of McDonalds: I have no doubt that their biggest selling items are "french fries" (which will hence forth be referred to as chips). McDonalds must make alot more money from chips than they make from Big Macs, Quarter Pounders, Milkshakes, etc... Does that mean that McDonalds should only sell chips from now on? Would that make business sense? I would think not.
If you narrow your product range too far, you narrow your customer base. Of course you don't want to keep products that have low profits if you can replace them with something more profitable but if you don't give the people some burgers, they'll soon get fed up of chips. People need to feel as though they have a choice, even if they want chips more often than anything else.
This would seem a very poor business decision. Removing choice and alienating the most loyal of your clientele and reducing the site's appeal to a wider audience.
You can equate it to having two supermarkets near your house: Tesco sells everything you need as well as some things you don't, while Sainsbury's just sells Milk. It's great milk at a really good price but that's all they sell. Nobody will go to Sainsbury's because they'll just get their milk at Tesco and save themselves the bother of going to both.
To make this personal to myself, I now have no interest in playing any of the main events, apart from the Primo. The double-stack and open were also worth playing but as someone without a huge bankroll, I don't want to pay big amounts for a small amount of play. I think that's the biggest problem I have with these tournament changes - You don't get any bang for your buck.
Lots of love for the changes on this thread, eh? I don't think I have a reputation as a moaner but I am dumbstruck by this decision. Just take a look at GaryQQQ's thread and you already see a noteable lack of choice. Bounty hunters already dominated the MTT schedule and now they, turbo's and rebuys will constitute the entire MTT menu. I understand the argument that you must give the people what they want and bounty hunters, turbo's and rebuys are Sky's best sellers. However, if you offer no variety, you narrow your customer base and become a manufacturer of a niche product. It's tough to see how a company that wishes to expand into the broader market can do so by narrowing it's product list. Take the example of McDonalds: I have no doubt that their biggest selling items are "french fries" (which will hence forth be referred to as chips). McDonalds must make alot more money from chips than they make from Big Macs, Quarter Pounders, Milkshakes, etc... Does that mean that McDonalds should only sell chips from now on? Would that make business sense? I would think not. If you narrow your product range too far, you narrow your customer base. Of course you don't want to keep products that have low profits if you can replace them with something more profitable but if you don't give the people some burgers, they'll soon get fed up of chips. People need to feel as though they have a choice, even if they want chips more often than anything else. This would seem a very poor business decision . Removing choice and alienating the most loyal of your clientele and reducing the site's appeal to a wider audience. You can equate it to having two supermarkets near your house: Tesco sells everything you need as well as some things you don't, while Sainsbury's just sells Milk. It's great milk at a really good price but that's all they sell. Nobody will go to Sainbury's because they'll just get their milk at Tesco and save themselves the bother of going to both. To make this personal to myself, I now have no interest in playing any of the main events, apart from the Primo. The double-stack and open were also worth playing but as someone without a huge bankroll, I don't want to pay big amounts for a small amount of play. I think that's the biggest problem I have with these tournament changes - You don't get any bang for your buck. I am disgruntled. Posted by BorinLoner
THIS IS WHAT I MEANT TO SAY BUT IM NOT VERY GOOD WITH WORDS. WELL DONE!!!
Have to agree with the majority here. Rebuys and BH tournaments are not the way I would have gone. A mixture of 6 max, short stacks, short blinds and rebuy / BH. All of which leads to players looking to play shove or fold poker with any 2 cards. for me we are left with shove or fold poker. 6 max site (gets the action going) 3 or 5 min blind levels (need to widen range of starting hands) short stack start (100 bb after about 15 mins down to 20 bb if you dont play a hand) BH or rebuy (invites people to play loose) all i can see is find a hand and shove or dont find a hand and shove and hope to get lucky. dont get me wrong there is a place for the above. it gets people involved and have a chance to make some money without making the final table. also new players may find this exciting. but I cant ever see them changeing any of the live major wsop ept main events to this type of format. have to think about why not so many people enter the deepstack main events. for my 2 pennyworth wrong day wrong time Try it on a Friday or sat night when people don’t have work the next dayor make the start time earlier so it finishes earlier. On an extra note try and add a deepstack semi 1 or 2 nights before as well as the normal semi. Having a short stack 3 min blind sat then a short stack 5 min semi into a deepstack dosent make sense. Posted by whipit
I agree that the deepstack would have been better on a friday night for those reasons. Some peeps have to get up early and don't want to play a long structured tourney during the week.
I love the Wednesday Deepstacks and would have been much happier if the night had just been changed to a Friday. I also love other standard MTT's, but being pushed into too many bounty hunters & Re-Buys is just not my cup of tea i'm afraid. I have tried the "Turbo Tuesdays" and many "Bounty Hunters" but the variance in them increases significantly imo.
The blind levels coupled with the existing starting stacks means there is no time to play poker, you are just looking for a spot to shove.
I don't mind a bit of variety and I am happy to play a Bounty hunter or a Turbo once or twice a week just for a bit of variety because I have a choice, but at the moment this new schedule and format has not impressed me at all.
I know these formats are popular on here, and sky poker needs to make money.........supply & demand..........entertain the masses etc etc, but i'm pretty sure this would have got a BIG Thumbs down by any of the Pro Poker Players on many other well known sites.
All we ask is that we are given an equal variety and choice. It's better to have 100 disgruntled customers playing an alternative "Standard MTT" than having those 100 customers not playing a "TurboBountyHunterRe-Buy" or not playing on the site at all, just because a particular format was not to their liking that night. (This is why filters were invented)
My company supplies Silver & Black "Duct Tape" - The silver one is twice as popular as the black one, however, I wouldn't discontinue the black one otherwise we would also lose the customers that buy some of each.
Hey everyone, Of course, like all things on Sky Poker, everything is subject to change. We will see how the new schedule does and hopefully we can get some hefty guarantees in place once the new tournaments become more established. We are constantly trying to offer up new and innovative ideas and tournaments, and of course everybodies opinion is valued. There will be a review of the new schedule in the coming weeks, with ammendments made based on the feedback we receive. It may sound like a broken record that we 'can't please everyone' but we can certainly try our best to make a schedule enjoyed by all throughout the week. Unfortunately the nature of the business is supply and demand, and the demand for the doublestack has diminished. We have tried something new, and will evaluate its effectiveness in the coming weeks. Hopefully you will all give the new schedule and jackpot structure a chance. Thanks a lot, Joe Posted by Sky_Joe
Hefty grnt once the tourneys are established?
Sky had that the they changed thing to "keep things fresh"
Have sky got any plans to drop the rake on rebuys wich is pretty much industry standard?
bout time the mad 9pm large buyin tournies were changed. Cant you just have 8pm mains, 8.15 mini and 9pm turbos as the main daily comps.
if you're going to have unlimited rebuys, set the buyin really low and look to introduce cubed/double chance tournaments that allow people to know what their potential outlay will be. and obviously stop raking the rebuys but w/e i've said that enough times ...
Is there any chance sky can run both ? deep and BH reduce any GTD pot. im sure some people will play both and may keep everyone happy. Posted by whipit
8.15 deepstack,sky just need to put nice gtd on it.job done 4 a wednesday.
Lots of love for the changes on this thread, eh? I don't think I have a reputation as a moaner but I am dumbstruck by this decision. Just take a look at GaryQQQ's thread and you already see a noteable lack of choice. Bounty hunters already dominated the MTT schedule and now they, turbo's and rebuys will constitute the entire MTT menu. I understand the argument that you must give the people what they want and bounty hunters, turbo's and rebuys are Sky's best sellers. However, if you offer no variety, you narrow your customer base and become a manufacturer of a niche product. It's tough to see how a company that wishes to expand into the broader market can do so by narrowing it's product list. Take the example of McDonalds: I have no doubt that their biggest selling items are "french fries" (which will hence forth be referred to as chips). McDonalds must make alot more money from chips than they make from Big Macs, Quarter Pounders, Milkshakes, etc... Does that mean that McDonalds should only sell chips from now on? Would that make business sense? I would think not. If you narrow your product range too far, you narrow your customer base. Of course you don't want to keep products that have low profits if you can replace them with something more profitable but if you don't give the people some burgers, they'll soon get fed up of chips. People need to feel as though they have a choice, even if they want chips more often than anything else. This would seem a very poor business decision . Removing choice and alienating the most loyal of your clientele and reducing the site's appeal to a wider audience. You can equate it to having two supermarkets near your house: Tesco sells everything you need as well as some things you don't, while Sainsbury's just sells Milk. It's great milk at a really good price but that's all they sell. Nobody will go to Sainbury's because they'll just get their milk at Tesco and save themselves the bother of going to both. To make this personal to myself, I now have no interest in playing any of the main events, apart from the Primo. The double-stack and open were also worth playing but as someone without a huge bankroll, I don't want to pay big amounts for a small amount of play. I think that's the biggest problem I have with these tournament changes - You don't get any bang for your buck. I am disgruntled. Posted by BorinLoner
I'm going to hold off giving my opinion on this until at least a full week run of the new schedule to see how it runs. I currently have strong opinions on this change (both from a personal stand point and for what in my opinion is better for the site, game and poker community as a whole; for one of the very few times there is a conflict between the two on a couple of points).
I think there has been some excellent posts so far in this thread but I feel giving feedback before any MTT from the new schedule has run would be a bit presumptuous of me bearing in mind I in no way assert myself as knowing how to form a MTT schedule or run a poker room. That's not a dig at anyone in case you misunderstand me, I just think it's somewhat folly to review a change that has happened and will run for the immediate future without playing one of them.
Why not just make every MTT a Bounty Hunter? That's surely the next step. I know they're popular, but surely some variety in the mini events at least would be good (and no not a Rebuy either)
I'm going to hold off giving my opinion on this until at least a full week run of the new schedule to see how it runs. I currently have strong opinions on this change (both from a personal stand point and for what in my opinion is better for the site, game and poker community as a whole; for one of the very few times there is a conflict between the two on a couple of points). I think there has been some excellent posts so far in this thread but I feel giving feedback before any MTT from the new schedule has run would be a bit presumptuous of me bearing in mind I in no way assert myself as knowing how to form a MTT schedule or run a poker room. That's not a dig at anyone in case you misunderstand me, I just think it's somewhat folly to review a change that has happened and will run for the immediate future without playing one of them. Posted by TommyD
Its the format of the games that most people are not liking.so the suck it and see way is probably not needed by most people as they are experienced players they have more than likely have tried the formats before
Comments
What will happen now? The Thursday numbers will go down slightly as some players move to other nights due to increased choice. The players that don't like BH will move to another site or switch away from the ME & Mini. I suspect that the focus on the ME & the Jackpot will reduce.
It might work but it is a high risk strategy as the FB pages indicate that several regular players are now looking at alternative sites. Ultimately, if SKY make good business decisions, numbers will continue to rise. If they make bad business decisions then numbers will stop rising.
Have to agree with the majority here. Rebuys and BH tournaments are not the way I would have gone.
A mixture of 6 max, short stacks, short blinds and rebuy / BH. All of which leads to players looking to play shove or fold poker with any 2 cards.
for me we are left with shove or fold poker.
6 max site (gets the action going)
3 or 5 min blind levels (need to widen range of starting hands)
short stack start (100 bb after about 15 mins down to 20 bb if you dont play a hand)
BH or rebuy (invites people to play loose)
all i can see is find a hand and shove or dont find a hand and shove and hope to get lucky.
dont get me wrong there is a place for the above. it gets people involved and have a chance to make some money without making the final table. also new players may find this exciting.
but I cant ever see them changeing any of the live major wsop ept main events to this type of format.
have to think about why not so many people enter the deepstack main events.
for my 2 pennyworth wrong day wrong time
Try it on a Friday or sat night when people don’t have work the next day or make the start time earlier so it finishes earlier.
On an extra note try and add a deepstack semi 1 or 2 nights before as well as the normal semi. Having a short stack 3 min blind sat then a short stack 5 min semi into a deepstack dosent make sense.
I NO YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYONE AND YOU DO YOU BEST BUT I HATE THESE CHANGES.
I don't think I have a reputation as a moaner but I am left almost dumbstruck by this decision. Just take a look at GaryQQQ's thread and you already see a noteable lack of variety. Bounty hunters already dominated the MTT schedule and now they, turbo's and rebuys will constitute the entire MTT menu.
I understand the argument that you must give the people what they want and bounty hunters, turbo's and rebuys are Sky's best sellers. However, if you offer no variety, you narrow your customer base and become a manufacturer of a niche product. It's tough to see how a company that wishes to expand into the broader market can do so by narrowing it's product list.
Take the example of McDonalds: I have no doubt that their biggest selling items are "french fries" (which will hence forth be referred to as chips). McDonalds must make alot more money from chips than they make from Big Macs, Quarter Pounders, Milkshakes, etc... Does that mean that McDonalds should only sell chips from now on? Would that make business sense? I would think not.
If you narrow your product range too far, you narrow your customer base. Of course you don't want to keep products that have low profits if you can replace them with something more profitable but if you don't give the people some burgers, they'll soon get fed up of chips. People need to feel as though they have a choice, even if they want chips more often than anything else.
This would seem a very poor business decision. Removing choice and alienating the most loyal of your clientele and reducing the site's appeal to a wider audience.
You can equate it to having two supermarkets near your house: Tesco sells everything you need as well as some things you don't, while Sainsbury's just sells Milk. It's great milk at a really good price but that's all they sell. Nobody will go to Sainsbury's because they'll just get their milk at Tesco and save themselves the bother of going to both.
To make this personal to myself, I now have no interest in playing any of the main events, apart from the Primo. The double-stack and open were also worth playing but as someone without a huge bankroll, I don't want to pay big amounts for a small amount of play. I think that's the biggest problem I have with these tournament changes - You don't get any bang for your buck.
I am disgruntled.
I love the Wednesday Deepstacks and would have been much happier if the night had just been changed to a Friday. I also love other standard MTT's, but being pushed into too many bounty hunters & Re-Buys is just not my cup of tea i'm afraid. I have tried the "Turbo Tuesdays" and many "Bounty Hunters" but the variance in them increases significantly imo.
The blind levels coupled with the existing starting stacks means there is no time to play poker, you are just looking for a spot to shove.
I don't mind a bit of variety and I am happy to play a Bounty hunter or a Turbo once or twice a week just for a bit of variety because I have a choice, but at the moment this new schedule and format has not impressed me at all.
I know these formats are popular on here, and sky poker needs to make money.........supply & demand..........entertain the masses etc etc, but i'm pretty sure this would have got a BIG Thumbs down by any of the Pro Poker Players on many other well known sites.
All we ask is that we are given an equal variety and choice. It's better to have 100 disgruntled customers playing an alternative "Standard MTT" than having those 100 customers not playing a "TurboBountyHunterRe-Buy" or not playing on the site at all, just because a particular format was not to their liking that night.
(This is why filters were invented)
My company supplies Silver & Black "Duct Tape" - The silver one is twice as popular as the black one, however, I wouldn't discontinue the black one otherwise we would also lose the customers that buy some of each.
yours sincerely
A disgruntled Player
I think there has been some excellent posts so far in this thread but I feel giving feedback before any MTT from the new schedule has run would be a bit presumptuous of me bearing in mind I in no way assert myself as knowing how to form a MTT schedule or run a poker room. That's not a dig at anyone in case you misunderstand me, I just think it's somewhat folly to review a change that has happened and will run for the immediate future without playing one of them.
Why not just make every MTT a Bounty Hunter? That's surely the next step. I know they're popular, but surely some variety in the mini events at least would be good (and no not a Rebuy either)
DTD's on Monday night becoming BH's?
TAXI !!!