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Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!!

step7step7 Member Posts: 298
edited February 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Really struggling with 50p Hyper SNGs. I'm a 7%ish winner at turbo/standard HU SNGs but can't seem to make any head way with hypers. Is it 50p HU SNG hypers are just unbeatable with 10% rake and it being such a high variance game?? I know win rates can be tiny - is there ever enough edge to overcome the rake?

Problems I'm facing:
Villains tend to defend any junk - epspecially sooooted, call most continuation bets with any draw any piece -- 3rd pair 0 kicker etc. Stacks are too short to wait for strong value hands then bet bet bet.

I can fold to aggresion, villains generally don't so they have fold equity working in their favour, I have little or none.

Villains tend to bomb the pot if in postion and I check any street or they'll donk shove the river if I've cbet then checked the turn: I'm left guessing if I've checked back 2nd pr ott for pot control.

I'm opening probs 70% of hands for a min raise 20BB+ - is this too wide readless?
I'm not used to limping but maybe I should be, especially with generally pasive opponents. Any suggestions on limping ranges at varying stack depths?

I'm cbetting 75% of flops readless - is this just burning money? Sick of getting stuck with AJs on a Q79r4 turn after villain has check-called the flop, I check the turn trying to get to show down and face a near pot donk lead on the river. Should I be just checking down any sort of marginal showdow value from the get go? I hate letting villain realise any equity they have in the hand and having to play a guessing game on later streets.

Hand reading against most villains is virtually impossible, as they're defending super-wide -- maybe they're right to a min raise?
For example: I min raise AQo 25BB deep, villain calls.
A64rb I bet 1/2 pot, villain calls
J turn I bet 3/4 pot villain calls.
J river, villian shoves - I call, villain shows J3o.
Ok this is a cooler, but it shows the point, these things play out like a bingo/card catching game.

Any comments on micro hypers or suggestions on possible adjustments would be appreciated - I really can't afford to pull any more hair out!
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Comments

  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited February 2013
    You'll never beat the rake
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited February 2013
    In Response to Re: Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!!:
    You'll never beat the rake
    Posted by rancid
    This.

    I'm running at around 4% ROI @ £20 games, and I doubt I could beat 10% rake @ 50p games. 

    aren't the £1 games only 5% rake?

    Standard of player wont be any better than 50p ones, so I'll answer the post properly soon. But for now, give up the 50p games, you've got no chance!
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  • bencbenc Member Posts: 1,059
    edited February 2013
    I have given up with the hypers now although i do think they are beatable long term but you would need to get so much volume in to see the hard work pay off. My advice would be against these type of players is start limping like almost all of your range, if they play back pre just shove the top end of your range, if they are happy to check pre all the time then rely on your ability to outplay them in smaller pots the majority of the time post flop, i found that a standard raise and a cbet not going my way 2-3 times left me crippled in hypers, now against better players i would still play this way as they will fold and the gameflow is different, but against stations i liked to keep the pots small early on try not to lose too much of your stack if your not hitting the deck then rely on your knowledge of shoving ranges once the blinds go up as the average player will be folding way too much, also take a look on dohh and lamberts threads as i read some views about hypers before on there and they both know alot more than me about Hypers. This is just my opinion and probably isn't an optimal way of playing vs most opponents, however i would suggest giving it a try and seeing how you get on even if you just limp miss fold a number of times at least your are not raise cbetting then getting into tricky spots and having to fold having lost alot of your stack.
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  • step7step7 Member Posts: 298
    edited February 2013
    Yeah just running some numbers on shove/fold game and it's looking unbeatable with 10% rake alone.

    "i found that a standard raise and a cbet not going my way 2-3 times left me crippled in hypers" -- exactly!! couple of these in a "match" (lm*f*ao) and u into shove/fold mode.

    I'll take the advice and try and grind up a roll suitable for 100 buys at 1 pounders (yes 5% rake) - shame I have to wait as Hypers are FUNNNNN, can see that 50ps just bingo for the masses tho - why do Sky have to rake them so heavily?? They're over in 4 minutes or less and it's not like the tables are ever maxed out.

    How come u gave up Hyps Benc, i though u were running ok in them?

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  • bencbenc Member Posts: 1,059
    edited February 2013
    I'm prone to tilt step and hypers and tilt dont mix well lol i know i could beat them long term , but i also know that the edge i have in turbos is alot bigger than hypers so i didn't see a need to keep playing them at the end of the day. I also wasn't completly confident in my hyper game, but i think its definetly good to think outside the box and consider different ways of approaching them try out some different ways and find what your most comfortable with.
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  • step7step7 Member Posts: 298
    edited February 2013
    Yeah know what u mean about hypers being tilt inducing, never lost so many 7030s in my life! Sick of seeing 4 stright boards here.
    Also know what u mean about the edge in slower structures, but the "bingo" element attracts the fish to hypers i reckon. Hypers gotta be good for ur 25BB down game too :) Dunno if I'lls stick with them, turbos/standards just seem so much easier - you can maybe wait an orbit or two for a hand, or better still wait for villain to mess up royally!
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited February 2013
    I was going to say something else, then I realised it was stupid.

    The rake is crazy, the variance is enormous.
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  • step7step7 Member Posts: 298
    edited February 2013
    Say it anyways Borin, I always value ur input. You having a mathemtical bent, should rake affect my shove/fold decisions? Should rake affect my decision in any marginal spot?

    Variance is tilting my head off, can't seem to win a flip ahead or behind, losing constantly with dominating hands (Wilhelm just 3 bet shove me over 13BBeff with K2o to spike a 2 and kill my KQo - arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!).
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  • WilhelmWilhelm Member Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2013
    In Response to Re: Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!!:
    Say it anyways Borin, I always value ur input. You having a mathemtical bent, should rake affect my shove/fold decisions? Should rake affect my decision in any marginal spot? Variance is tilting my head off, can't seem to win a flip ahead or behind, losing constantly with dominating hands (Wilhelm just 3 bet shove me over 13BBeff with K2o to spike a 2 and kill my KQo - arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!).
    Posted by step7
    Lol thanks for the name and shame.  As I recall the last time we played you had more spikes than a hedgehog.  It swings both ways.
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited February 2013
    Varience is tilting your head off yet you decide to play heads up hyper sngs? lol  Do you really have any idea how many of these games you are going to have to play to beat the varience and even then your roi wont be that high.
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited February 2013
    In Response to Re: Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!!:
    Variance is tilting my head off, can't seem to win a flip ahead or behind, losing constantly with dominating hands (Wilhelm just 3 bet shove me over 13BBeff with K2o to spike a 2 and kill my KQo - arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!).
    Posted by step7
    Do you know what varience is?  Looking at your sharkscope you have no reason to complain about varience as you havnt experienced it yet.
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  • step7step7 Member Posts: 298
    edited February 2013
    In Response to Re: Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!!:
    In Response to Re: Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!! : Lol thanks for the name and shame.  As I recall the last time we played you had more spikes than a hedgehog.  It swings both ways.
    Posted by Wilhelm
    Lol sorry Wilhelm that beat was the icing on the cake after a string of coolers, beats, runner-runners blah blah... I think your memories fading though, I've NEVER spiked after a bad play on you ;)

    Take the point about a real run of varaince, I'm adverse to it, so try and avoid it - maybe I'm not cut out for hypers as a grade A tilt monkey.

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  • WilhelmWilhelm Member Posts: 1,730
    edited February 2013
    In Response to Re: Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!!:
    In Response to Re: Micro HU SNG Hypers Please Help!! : Lol sorry Wilhelm that beat was the icing on the cake after a string of coolers, beats, runner-runners blah blah... I think your memories fading though, I've NEVER spiked after a bad play on you ;) Take the point about a real run of varaince, I'm adverse to it, so try and avoid it - maybe I'm not cut out for hypers as a grade A tilt monkey.
    Posted by step7
    I'm not saying you made a bad play, we all get it in behind sometimes.
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  • THEROCK573THEROCK573 Member Posts: 2,550
    edited February 2013
    these games are crazy, i was playing the £10.00 games and the £20.00 games, beat one guy 14 games to 1 then played a player that was not as good and lost 8 - 1. im finished with them, good for racking points up quick tho
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