You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Options
Little, uncommon possible advantageous plays/tactics
thedazzman
Member Posts: 937
in Poker Chat
My mind always thinks of these little things - and after reading about a hand history review about not shoving totally allin and leaving only 10 chips on the button - so I thought I'd post here to just have a little bit of fun discussion. It can be serious as well, like if any are actually worth doing or even +EV over the long term. And if you have any of your own little quirky tactics at the table.
As I have been a predominately DYM in recent weeks, the following will mainly be applicable to them, although can apply to other poker situations.
1. As above, an example can be viewed with a few points of discussion HERE, shoving over 90% of your stack or of the lowest stack on the bubble with the possible intention of folding to a raise, if there is a bigger stack who forces another player allin giving you a chance to cash.
I do this quite often, with the thought that any multitabler will see their 'raise' buttons rather than only the 'call' button. My hope in this situation would be that at quick glance, they hit the fold button not realising it's very very little more to call an allin.
Furthermore, if you have those 10 chips, and you get a preflop caller. The caller may disconnect during the hand, and you can pick up an easy pot by betting those 10 chips and they autofold after timing out.
Another reason why I personally do this, is that I played my tables in a stacked position, so if I need to act again I know I am in an allin situation, and can drag the table aside to watch it run out.
2. One of my minor hates about Sky Poker is the ability to win/bet in decimals.
I don't do this at all as it takes too much time to type, however, the thought has crossed my mind, that if you bet for example, 100.5 rather than 100, again the multitablers, or players acting quickly and not paying much attention, think that's a bet of 1005 at first glance and fold.
3. Min betting into worthwhile pots against possible sit-outs.
If there is a player who has been seen to be taking every second of their allotted time to act with most of their actions, or timing out frequently. Even if I have a very poor hand or even a missed draw etc, I sometimes would bet a minimum bet on a street if it has been seen the Villain has been timing out a lot. I have actually won a few nice pots using this strategy.
4. Stalling on blind level changes.
When the blind levels are higher, and especially on the bubble of a DYM stalling on your actions in order for the level to increase when you are on the button next hand. That way, the other players at the table have to pay more than you did. This works well when you are one of the short stacks at the table. I admit I only rarely do this when I am finishing my session with the last table or 2 left, as it is difficult to do whilst mulitabling. I am sure a lot of regular DYM players already know this. It is something for an aspiring player to consider.
5. Sit out until dealt a premium (especially when in the [higher] blinds)
This one, I never do and it is very questionable indeed about if its an angle shoot or not. I think it is, however, as Sky Poker do not instantly fold sitout players. If you were to willing sitout at your table, as you were gonna be folding most hands anyway. You could possible wait until you were dealt AA or some other premium. And as everybody hates getting a walk holding AA, if you were sitting out, you would almost certainly get a raise. You could theoretically sit back in, even if it was the SB who raised your BB, then re-shove on them.
6. Stalling on every hand if you have a huge stack
Similarly to the couple points above. If you are lucky enough to have a huge stack in the early/mid stages, with a couple of shorter stacks fighting for survival, stalling on every hand to let the blinds increase denying those short stacks more chances [less hands played] of doubling up before the blinds are at a stage where it more difficult for them to survive.
That's it for now. As I said, some of these may or may not be +EV, and I have only shared these for a bit of discussion about alternative strategies. Poker is all about small edges and some of these may be. Perhaps some other user who are more knowledgeable about the theory of poker could explain if any are actually worth doing.
See you at the tables, good luck until then!
As I have been a predominately DYM in recent weeks, the following will mainly be applicable to them, although can apply to other poker situations.
1. As above, an example can be viewed with a few points of discussion HERE, shoving over 90% of your stack or of the lowest stack on the bubble with the possible intention of folding to a raise, if there is a bigger stack who forces another player allin giving you a chance to cash.
I do this quite often, with the thought that any multitabler will see their 'raise' buttons rather than only the 'call' button. My hope in this situation would be that at quick glance, they hit the fold button not realising it's very very little more to call an allin.
Furthermore, if you have those 10 chips, and you get a preflop caller. The caller may disconnect during the hand, and you can pick up an easy pot by betting those 10 chips and they autofold after timing out.
Another reason why I personally do this, is that I played my tables in a stacked position, so if I need to act again I know I am in an allin situation, and can drag the table aside to watch it run out.
2. One of my minor hates about Sky Poker is the ability to win/bet in decimals.
I don't do this at all as it takes too much time to type, however, the thought has crossed my mind, that if you bet for example, 100.5 rather than 100, again the multitablers, or players acting quickly and not paying much attention, think that's a bet of 1005 at first glance and fold.
3. Min betting into worthwhile pots against possible sit-outs.
If there is a player who has been seen to be taking every second of their allotted time to act with most of their actions, or timing out frequently. Even if I have a very poor hand or even a missed draw etc, I sometimes would bet a minimum bet on a street if it has been seen the Villain has been timing out a lot. I have actually won a few nice pots using this strategy.
4. Stalling on blind level changes.
When the blind levels are higher, and especially on the bubble of a DYM stalling on your actions in order for the level to increase when you are on the button next hand. That way, the other players at the table have to pay more than you did. This works well when you are one of the short stacks at the table. I admit I only rarely do this when I am finishing my session with the last table or 2 left, as it is difficult to do whilst mulitabling. I am sure a lot of regular DYM players already know this. It is something for an aspiring player to consider.
5. Sit out until dealt a premium (especially when in the [higher] blinds)
This one, I never do and it is very questionable indeed about if its an angle shoot or not. I think it is, however, as Sky Poker do not instantly fold sitout players. If you were to willing sitout at your table, as you were gonna be folding most hands anyway. You could possible wait until you were dealt AA or some other premium. And as everybody hates getting a walk holding AA, if you were sitting out, you would almost certainly get a raise. You could theoretically sit back in, even if it was the SB who raised your BB, then re-shove on them.
6. Stalling on every hand if you have a huge stack
Similarly to the couple points above. If you are lucky enough to have a huge stack in the early/mid stages, with a couple of shorter stacks fighting for survival, stalling on every hand to let the blinds increase denying those short stacks more chances [less hands played] of doubling up before the blinds are at a stage where it more difficult for them to survive.
That's it for now. As I said, some of these may or may not be +EV, and I have only shared these for a bit of discussion about alternative strategies. Poker is all about small edges and some of these may be. Perhaps some other user who are more knowledgeable about the theory of poker could explain if any are actually worth doing.
See you at the tables, good luck until then!
Comments
A player who insta folds when its their turn to act, they are in the habit of pre-selected Check/fold with poor hands.
4 is standard
5 Have notes on a (thankfully few) who do that regularly
You do realise you are now going to be scrutinised harder than a government advisor as to whether you follow these guidelines?
Yes, that is another very good point. Can be especially effective in stealing their blinds. *edited to add*
DISCLAIMER
Follow these guidelines if you can. If you can't then don't
#1 is very +EV in the right situations. I won't go into it any further because I'd rather not give information away
#2 I think makes no difference to anything.
#4 is standard but hard to do when multi-tabling. 9 times out of 10 if I stall with a few seconds left to go in a level, I haven't noticed the blinds are about to go up and the 'stalling' is purely coincidental because I have something else going on on another table, or I'm reging more games in the lobby or whatever.
#5 is scummy and is one of the few things that will get me to have a pop at someone in chat for being an absolute phallus. At the very least, you'll probably get a note on you containing some expletives and a reminder to slowroll you at every opportunity thereafter. IMO away players cards should be mucked after the blinds are posted, like in live Poker.
#6 I think is -EV for a winning player. IMO you want as many hands as possible, for several reasons:
Firstly, stalling is just bad for the game all round. From my perspective, I want the recs to be enjoying the game and to continue playing, ideally in the same games as me. I don't want recs spamming "zzzzzz" in the chat and logging out of the site once the game is finished because every hand takes 45 seconds for people to give the BB a walk, so they get bored and find something else to do. That's no good for anyone.
As for who should stall - The value from stalling in tournaments comes from other tables playing at regular speed while you play fewer hands and ladder because you're less likely to bust playing fewer hands. Obviously that's not something that applies when you only have 1 table. However, reducing stack depth also reduces your edge, so there's no reason for any better than average player to want to play fewer hands per level in a single table situation.
I appreciate the time you've taken to give some excellent information and advice.
Good luck at the tables
Here’s me thinking poker is a fun game
Hate everything about this thread.
Maybe I’m too naive.
I am sorry you feel this way about the thread I created. It was not my intention.
I'm not too sure what there is to hate, but the reason I posted this was to perhaps discuss some areas of poker in which a lot of players may not think about right away. Outside of the box thinking, so to speak. And maybe for others to share some of theirs.
Even though some I mentioned may not be entirely etiquettley good, to some, and I would never condone using those. It doesn't mean others won't and at least by highlighting them, more players will understand why some may use these tactics.
On reflection, maybe the use of the word 'advantageous' in the title was the wrong choice.
Again, I am sorry for any misunderstandings, and I wish you the best of luck at the tables.
Appreciate the reply
Thank you.
Good Luck to you also.
1. is fine
2. whatever
Interesting that people thinks its ok to exploit players who are possibly disconnected by stealing their chips but if they exploit this by sitting back in with premiums this is viewed in a very negative light.
If you deliberately stall to wait for blinds to go up/players get knocked out its fine, but I will hate you for it. Nothing worse than a MTT where you play a hand every 5 mins to see can someone fold enough to get their entry fee back. Play and try make the bigger money
And that is something that has to be remembered, these are primarily dym tactics. As such they are part of the dym game, especially turbos
Mtt players cant really get upset either, look how often we see stalling / clock burning when it gets down near to the bubble and then into the money.
Using the clock / blind levels against short stacks is simply another strategy whether its sng dym mtt.
People are 100% entitled to play as slowly as they like, in any format. I just hate it and it makes games extremely frustrating to play. Also, Im not sure people really gain the advantage they think from it
Nobody gains. Everyone loses.
I think sitting out with the intention of inducing when you have a premium hand is pretty shoddy
Fortunately, unlike you it seems, I see it very rarely in Dyms
If they’re on other tables and unaware they’re sitting out in a game I will always tell them. I get the same courtesy from them as well when it happens to me.
When someone is sat out for the duration.. It’s unspoken but the table will blind then out. This may not sound great but then common sense does apply
It reminds me of this hand, which still really annoys me when I watch it.
Silverman is completely in the wrong here IMO. Daniel Negreanu raises huge in the Button or SB as a miss-click with AK. You can debate all day if he really did not mean it. Silverman then thinks Daniel is weak, so shoves over the raise, trying to steal the 45k or so that Daniel put in. He's snap called and loses, and then calls Daniel shady. But in my mind, he was trying to take advantage of an opponent and it came back to bite him, so he should suck it up.
In terms of some of the other points raised, 4 is the one I do the most. If the blinds are 150-300 and the next BB has 600 chips, by stalling until the 200-400 level, you ensure that player is all in within 2 hands, which will hugely affect the way the table plays.
Negreanu always meant to raise, which means he's either making a move or he has a solid hand. It can be argued as to whether the 11x raise was a genuine error or a bit of an angle.
But, whether the raise is half pot, 2x, 4x, or whatever, Silverman seems to focus more on the event and maybe not as much on Daniels range. He raised, that part wasn't a mistake, he meant to raise.
So Silverman has a decision to make and makes the wrong one.
Perhaps a case of oops can I have a do over.