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sit and go issue

Williams12Williams12 Member Posts: 147
if u see 2 players helping each other in
a sit n go kind of stupidly folding in the middle of a hand
without a raise to share chips between them is that legal?

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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,318

    @Williams12

    Good morning.

    More information is needed before anyone can reply properly to that.

    DYM's are tactically very different from cash games or MTT's. In a DYM there are all sorts of weird situations where normally we would contest the pot, but sometimes it is correct to fold, even if we have a premium hand which we think is almost certainly winning. And yes, there are also situations where players are colluding. It's hard to prove though, so good evidence is needed.

    PS - pleased to see you won your last two DYM's, one late last night, the other early this morning.
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    Williams12Williams12 Member Posts: 147
    Tikay10 said:


    @Williams12

    Good morning.

    More information is needed before anyone can reply properly to that.

    DYM's are tactically very different from cash games or MTT's. In a DYM there are all sorts of weird situations where normally we would contest the pot, but sometimes it is correct to fold, even if we have a premium hand which we think is almost certainly winning. And yes, there are also situations where players are colluding. It's hard to prove though, so good evidence is needed.

    PS - pleased to see you won your last two DYM's, one late last night, the other early this morning.

    so look at this hand there a bet call action and then guy who made the bet just folds in the middle
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Williams12Small blind50.0050.004100.00
    leonard02Big blind100.00150.001332.50
    Your hole cards
    • 5
    • 6
    keckers16Raise200.00350.003322.50
    SchMichealFold
    ReecetinCall200.00550.001015.00
    Williams12Fold
    leonard02Fold
    Flop
    • Q
    • 2
    • 2
    keckers16Check
    ReecetinCheck
    Turn
    • 8
    keckers16Bet550.001100.002772.50
    ReecetinCall550.001650.00465.00
    River
    • 6
    keckers16Fold
    ReecetinMuck
    ReecetinWin1650.002115.00
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,318
    edited April 2023
    @Williams12

    There are all sorts of possible inferences we can draw from that, most of them (but not all) innocent.

    In my personal view, we can never make a judgement of hanky-panky on the evidence of a single hand, we need a whole batch of them. There could be any number of innocent reasons for that play. (& some not so innocent ones).

    PS - feel free to report any reasonable suspicions to Customer Care, though again, please don't make judgements on the basis of a single hand.

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    Angela124Angela124 Member Posts: 71
    Looks like the player was probably on a fishing expidition and missed, knew they were beat and was too embarrassed to show, so just folded thus hiding hand from opponent
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,318
    Angela124 said:

    Looks like the player was probably on a fishing expidition and missed, knew they were beat and was too embarrassed to show, so just folded thus hiding hand from opponent

    @Angela124


    Yes, that's certainly one of the most obvious explanations.
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    Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 512
    Is this a DYM?

    One other explanation is a time out.

    I also see beginner players betting turn and open folding rivers against me in cash games. Sometimes when I almost certainly have the losing hand.
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,318
    Bean81 said:

    Is this a DYM?

    One other explanation is a time out.

    I also see beginner players betting turn and open folding rivers against me in cash games. Sometimes when I almost certainly have the losing hand.


    @Bean81


    It was a DYM, yes.

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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,001
    It is a given that you cannot infer collusion from one hand. For all the reasons given.

    For all that, there remains a strong possibility that that is collusion. And Sky would quickly be able to establish whether that was indeed the case. There are plenty of hidden cards that would support that.

    Because it is either truly terrible play by 1 or both. Or a chip dump. Because with the folder's stack size, he has played that as badly as is possible.
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    Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 512
    I would think a chip dump would be more sophisticated than this. I would also think the combined odds of both cashing as a result of this play were not enhcanced. It's therefore probably a time out or a beginner player. As Phil mentions, it's easy enough to prove collusion if this kind of thing happens more than once.
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    Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,477
    Bean81 said:

    I would think a chip dump would be more sophisticated than this. I would also think the combined odds of both cashing as a result of this play were not enhcanced. It's therefore probably a time out or a beginner player. As Phil mentions, it's easy enough to prove collusion if this kind of thing happens more than once.

    Not sure about the sophistication
    The vast majority of people who try and collude are incredibly bad at it
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,318

    A peruse of the limited info available on Sharky (neither player is Opted In) does not suggest any pattern of the two players regularly sharing DYM tables.
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    Angela124Angela124 Member Posts: 71
    It cannot be a timeout @Bean81 as he was first to act and the other player didn't bet
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    Angela124Angela124 Member Posts: 71
    I should add I have seen on more occasions I can count a player calling/raising down to the river and folding when first to act when they haven't hit
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    Bean81Bean81 Member Posts: 512
    Ah, yes - you are right.
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    raggy94raggy94 Member Posts: 147
    Open folding river better play than check/folding if you've got 3h4h and the blinds go up in 5 seconds imo.
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