Whether you agree with Brexit or not, and I'm fairly certain that most on here don't, the win was made quite easy by the lack of real opposition and presentation of facts by those who wished to remain.
The blase underestimation of the feelings of the electorate, allowed the campaign to stay to become nothing more than a series of personal attacks on those leading the leave movement, instead of a proper reasoned set of arguments.
The same mistake is being made with Farage and Reform. The main parties and press seem happy to just keep on bashing him without actually offering workable solutions to the issues that we all know drive Reform and it's supporters.
Remember during Covid when Labour just bashed the Tories without ever saying what they would do. To my mind it's like that. Oh and before you all think that Reform are unelectable. They're not.
The betrayal by Labour, the complete mistrust of the Tories and the demonisation of dissent is creating in many inner city areas a groundswell that if not addressed may lead to more than the odd surprise come the next election.
Whether you agree with Brexit or not, and I'm fairly certain that most on here don't, the win was made quite easy by the lack of real opposition and presentation of facts by those who wished to remain.
The blase underestimation of the feelings of the electorate, allowed the campaign to stay to become nothing more than a series of personal attacks on those leading the leave movement, instead of a proper reasoned set of arguments.
The same mistake is being made with Farage and Reform. The main parties and press seem happy to just keep on bashing him without actually offering workable solutions to the issues that we all know drive Reform and it's supporters.
Remember during Covid when Labour just bashed the Tories without ever saying what they would do. To my mind it's like that. Oh and before you all think that Reform are unelectable. They're not.
The betrayal by Labour, the complete mistrust of the Tories and the demonisation of dissent is creating in many inner city areas a groundswell that if not addressed may lead to more than the odd surprise come the next election.
I thought the Remain campaign was poor. The Leave campaign was based on lies and fantasy. Hence the current majority in favour of rejoining. If I remember correctly, we were leaving to take control of our borders, money, and laws, and we would secure a trade deal with the USA, that would be hugely better than the one we had with Europe. Hows that gone? Record immigration, no closer to the USA trade deal, and 9 years since the referendum, 5 since we left. There is no point in arguing over Brexit. Most people admit it was a mistake.
It will be a huge disappointment to me if Farage ever got elected. If it did happen, then you are right, it will be the fault of the Labour government. We have had consistent failure from the Tories, but now it is down to Labour. We need more action and less talk. Although I do believe the Tories left them in a difficult position. I dont see what Labour have done so far as a betrayal.
Farage never offers real solutions, he just points out what is going wrong. We can all do that. It would be a sad day for our country if he got elected. If Labour sorted out immigration, I think it would take the wind out of his sails.
There is a big battle going on in the Reform Party.
It's 5 MPs are divided on pretty much everything. The most important thing that divides them is money.
On the 1 hand, Farage is better known than Reform. Actually earns more money than the entire political Party-as that last article points out.
To become a major political force, they need a massive amount of money. To provide an infrastructure capable of having coherent candidates and a coherent strategy.
Which places it at a major crossroads. Go with their political asset-Farage. Who is brilliant at inspiring people in the short-term, and imploding in the medium-term before actually achieving his goals. (There is a reason UKIP imploded, the Brexit Party withered, and Reform has only existed for 5 minutes).
Or follow the money. At a price. Musk will provide the money. But wants Farage to be replaced, and to follow a far further Right agenda, following the politics of the likes of Tommy Robinson.
I find myself conflicted. Nothing is ever certain in politics. But who do I want to win? Because on the 1 hand Farage is far more sensible/less deranged than Musk, Robinson or that moron Lowe. But they are (IMHO) totally unelectable without him. Because this battle is precisely the same 1 that finished UKIP.
The person to follow in this battle is probably 30p Lee. The Poundland Tebbitt is primarily an attack dog. There to take the blame for others-something he has previously done for both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party. And-for once in his sad, sorry life-he is probably going to be important.
They have 5 MPs. Farage in 1 camp. Lowe in another. Tice is a follower-and an ineffective 1 at that. And the woman-beater is clearly not allowed to speak on anything.
Lee Anderson: Reform UK cannot go on with Rupert Lowe as MP
Whether you agree with Brexit or not, and I'm fairly certain that most on here don't, the win was made quite easy by the lack of real opposition and presentation of facts by those who wished to remain.
The blase underestimation of the feelings of the electorate, allowed the campaign to stay to become nothing more than a series of personal attacks on those leading the leave movement, instead of a proper reasoned set of arguments.
The same mistake is being made with Farage and Reform. The main parties and press seem happy to just keep on bashing him without actually offering workable solutions to the issues that we all know drive Reform and it's supporters.
Remember during Covid when Labour just bashed the Tories without ever saying what they would do. To my mind it's like that. Oh and before you all think that Reform are unelectable. They're not.
The betrayal by Labour, the complete mistrust of the Tories and the demonisation of dissent is creating in many inner city areas a groundswell that if not addressed may lead to more than the odd surprise come the next election.
Voices: Reform’s implosion makes a second term for Keir Starmer more likely
Couple of nuggets: 1. I was on a train with a bunch of rowdy young football fans a few weeks ago. They described Reform as "a good idea that's being badly led". That was a surprise to me. 2. I looked up Rupert Lowe yesterday. He is an active director of 13 companies, a so-called farmer, somebody that works as a consultant on data and social media (!), in addition to being the MP for Great Yarmouth, a job many miles from his home. No wonder he's as bad an MP as he was a football chairman.
To TheEdge's point about the "blasé underestimation of the feelings of the electorate" : yes, totally. It was just a shame many were sold a scam as the solution to their problems, which are complex. To your point, though: I recommend every MP take a trip to their nearest Asda or take a walk down a High Street outside of the London catchment area. When you live in a London bubble, it's eye-opening.
I have nothing against CEOs getting share options. Provided they are proportionate. And reward exceptional performance.
Let's first look at the share option which has been refused by the US Courts. For being what English Law would call a Fraud on the Minority.
The share option was to be allowed to purchase 303 million shares. They won't say how many shares there currently are-but it is probably about 3 billion shares. So that is an extra 10% of shares. Which will inevitably dilute the value of existing shares by roughly 10%, too.
Then it is important to look at the price of this "stock option". It is for (roughly) £17 per share. In December 2024 the share price was roughly £370 per share. Which would then have given him a windfall of roughly £100 Billion.
Then let's look at company and stock performance. Tesla has, in the last 3 months, lost more than 50% of its value. Which (of course) still results in ordinary shareholders handing over roughly 10% of their (rapidly declining) stock value. To reward the World's richest man for poor performance
Then it is important to look at the cause for this loss. The Chief Executive openly devotes a lot of his time to a different Company, SpaceX. But now he has embarked on a 3rd "job". One that is deeply divisive. Causing a massive sales slump in the European countries the Chief Executive has chosen to disparage. Causing even his supporters not to buy the Company's vehicles for fear of malicious damage. Not for what he has done at Tesla-for what he is choosing to do in his "spare" time.
Finally, let's look at the threats. Musk openly states that if he does not receive a multi-$Billion pay bump as a reward for overseeing a share price drop of hundreds of $Billions primarily due to his actions, he will personally divert product to a competitor, while (presumably) remaining in post at Tesla.
Forget whether you agree or disagree with his agenda. As a businessman, he is delusional.
Comments
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/happens-mess-nigel-row-ripping-213033617.html
This row reminds me of the row between Farage and the then-Clacton UKIP MP (and UKIP's only elected MP) Douglas Carswell.
What did Mr Carswell do to incur Farage's wrath? Declined to nominate Farage for a Peerage
The blase underestimation of the feelings of the electorate, allowed the campaign to stay to become nothing more than a series of personal attacks on those leading the leave movement, instead of a proper reasoned set of arguments.
The same mistake is being made with Farage and Reform. The main parties and press seem happy to just keep on bashing him without actually offering workable solutions to the issues that we all know drive Reform and it's supporters.
Remember during Covid when Labour just bashed the Tories without ever saying what they would do. To my mind it's like that. Oh and before you all think that Reform are unelectable. They're not.
The betrayal by Labour, the complete mistrust of the Tories and the demonisation of dissent is creating in many inner city areas a groundswell that if not addressed may lead to more than the odd surprise come the next election.
The Leave campaign was based on lies and fantasy.
Hence the current majority in favour of rejoining.
If I remember correctly, we were leaving to take control of our borders, money, and laws, and we would secure a trade deal with the USA, that would be hugely better than the one we had with Europe.
Hows that gone?
Record immigration, no closer to the USA trade deal, and 9 years since the referendum, 5 since we left.
There is no point in arguing over Brexit.
Most people admit it was a mistake.
It will be a huge disappointment to me if Farage ever got elected.
If it did happen, then you are right, it will be the fault of the Labour government.
We have had consistent failure from the Tories, but now it is down to Labour.
We need more action and less talk.
Although I do believe the Tories left them in a difficult position.
I dont see what Labour have done so far as a betrayal.
Farage never offers real solutions, he just points out what is going wrong.
We can all do that.
It would be a sad day for our country if he got elected.
If Labour sorted out immigration, I think it would take the wind out of his sails.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/anderson-reform-cannot-rupert-lowe-110145970.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/voices-reform-s-implosion-makes-a-second-term-for-keir-starmer-more-likely/ar-AA1Awjq3?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=ac464f5f4f874d3086cd99bde8c4c02a&ei=74#fullscreen
1. I was on a train with a bunch of rowdy young football fans a few weeks ago. They described Reform as "a good idea that's being badly led". That was a surprise to me.
2. I looked up Rupert Lowe yesterday. He is an active director of 13 companies, a so-called farmer, somebody that works as a consultant on data and social media (!), in addition to being the MP for Great Yarmouth, a job many miles from his home. No wonder he's as bad an MP as he was a football chairman.
To TheEdge's point about the "blasé underestimation of the feelings of the electorate" : yes, totally. It was just a shame many were sold a scam as the solution to their problems, which are complex. To your point, though: I recommend every MP take a trip to their nearest Asda or take a walk down a High Street outside of the London catchment area. When you live in a London bubble, it's eye-opening.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/dog-whistle-v-fog-horn-why-rupert-lowe-s-reach-on-x-may-not-cut-through/ar-AA1ADjyf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=a2ac0ff614754a66a88f650f3c9636fe&ei=45#fullscreen
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/elon-musk-considers-backing-rival-to-reform-led-by-rupert-lowe-as-nigel-farage-feud-deepens/ar-AA1AHAS7?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=542e9b6ebd8f42d3889a86dffbcd59b2&ei=63#fullscreen
Says Rupert. Playing to the gallery.
Surely this odious goblinesque **** is busy trying to run the US.
He already has citizenship in South Africa, USA and Canada. Why is that neccessary.
At the risk of sounding like Doubleme, I feel he is a very dangerous individual with a hidden agenda.
Elon Musk wants the far right AfD to win the German election - here’s how he became their champion
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/elon-musk-afd-germany-election-b2702851.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/farage-warns-there-is-no-way-back-for-rupert-lowe-as-reform-uk-civil-war-deepens/ar-AA1ALj1J?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=1c69dfc755844730a41d23ac58ea9943&ei=59#fullscreen
But, IMHO, people tend to concentrate on the personality. Rather than cold, hard facts.
Here is a starting point-a (rather average) article in the Express yesterday
https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/2026443/elon-musk-salary-tesla-shares-drop
I have nothing against CEOs getting share options. Provided they are proportionate. And reward exceptional performance.
Let's first look at the share option which has been refused by the US Courts. For being what English Law would call a Fraud on the Minority.
The share option was to be allowed to purchase 303 million shares. They won't say how many shares there currently are-but it is probably about 3 billion shares. So that is an extra 10% of shares. Which will inevitably dilute the value of existing shares by roughly 10%, too.
Then it is important to look at the price of this "stock option". It is for (roughly) £17 per share. In December 2024 the share price was roughly £370 per share. Which would then have given him a windfall of roughly £100 Billion.
Then let's look at company and stock performance. Tesla has, in the last 3 months, lost more than 50% of its value. Which (of course) still results in ordinary shareholders handing over roughly 10% of their (rapidly declining) stock value. To reward the World's richest man for poor performance
Then it is important to look at the cause for this loss. The Chief Executive openly devotes a lot of his time to a different Company, SpaceX. But now he has embarked on a 3rd "job". One that is deeply divisive. Causing a massive sales slump in the European countries the Chief Executive has chosen to disparage. Causing even his supporters not to buy the Company's vehicles for fear of malicious damage. Not for what he has done at Tesla-for what he is choosing to do in his "spare" time.
Finally, let's look at the threats. Musk openly states that if he does not receive a multi-$Billion pay bump as a reward for overseeing a share price drop of hundreds of $Billions primarily due to his actions, he will personally divert product to a competitor, while (presumably) remaining in post at Tesla.
Forget whether you agree or disagree with his agenda. As a businessman, he is delusional.