What to do on the turn?

jdsallstar · April 2014

As the title suggests what do I do here? Or did I make the mistake earlier in the hand?

If I check any half decent villain will take the pot off me on the turn and if not the river. Any bet has to be all in so I only get called if I'm behind. So what's the best approach?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Poshbird	Small blind		60.00	60.00	5750.00
BCOOL	Big blind		120.00	180.00	7710.00
	Your hole cards	J J
jdsallstar	Raise		360.00	540.00	2265.00
kyp1961	Fold
x	Call		360.00	900.00	13795.00
nackywin	Fold
Poshbird	Fold
BCOOL	Fold
Flop
		6 4 3
jdsallstar	Bet		600.00	1500.00	1665.00
x	Call		600.00	2100.00	13195.00
Turn
		A
jdsallstar	?

DOHHHHHHH · April 2014

"As the title suggests what do I do here? Or did I make the mistake earlier in the hand?

If I check any half decent villain will take the pot off me on the turn and if not the river. Any bet has to be all in so I only get called if I'm behind. So what's the best approach?"

It's an ok card for us.

There's no flush draw on the flop, so the only likely aces villain will hold are A6/A5 and maybe A4/A3

You still beat all 4x/5x/6x/7x hands as well as 55/88/99/TT

I disagree that any bet has to be all in, if that was the case then I'd agree you're probably only going to get the top end of his range to continue, (a lot of which we lose to, sets/2pairs, made straights)

We want value from the weaker end of his range, so we can bet small or even check to induce. If you feel it's a spot where villains will often bet regardless of their hand when we check then you can use that as a way of getting value.

I prefer the bet small option, around 350.

edit* if it's a BH, just shove. Looking at his stack and your stack there's loads of stuff we can beat that they wont fold.

Lambert180 · April 2014

If you think checking is gonna result in the villian bluffing loads then it's an easy c/c imo. If he's never bluffing then we can c/f, but I also like JJ's idea to just bet small, still lots of value to be had.

jdsallstar · April 2014

Pretty readless on villain tbh but haven't seen him do anything too out of line.

If I check and he bets say 700 (half my stack), what do I do then? Can't flat leaving myself 7 bigs or whatever surely?

And betting small-does that not look really weak after betting 600 on the flop? I get it's a plan of bet small to look strong but is that not really transparent? And considering he's called the flop bet is he really laying down many hands to a small bet given his stack size, pot size etc assuming he flats my small raise sensing some weakness then when I have to check river I really look weak.

Lambert180 · April 2014

There seems to be some confused thought processes going on.

You seem very worried about looking weak in the hand, but the only 'problem' with looking weak is that he's more likely to pounce on it and bluff and if he does that, it's great cos we beat all bluffs. So either he's capable of bluffing in which case we want him to, OR he's not capable of bluffing so we can just bet small and get value from weaker hands and if he raises, we have to sigh/fold.

LARSON7 · April 2014

You have set it up 2 Jam the Turn, so prob just jam Turn.

SPR is pretty difficult, not much point in bet folding.

Jam or a check for me.

jdsallstar · April 2014

In Response to Re: What to do on the turn?:

There seems to be some confused thought processes going on. You seem very worried about looking weak in the hand, but the only 'problem' with looking weak is that he's more likely to pounce on it and bluff and if he does that, it's great cos we beat all bluffs. So either he's capable of bluffing in which case we want him to, OR he's not capable of bluffing so we can just bet small and get value from weaker hands and if he raises, we have to sigh/fold.
Posted by Lambert180

Thanks Paul, I'm worried about looking weak because if he does bluff it becomes very hard for me to continue. I thought as Larson says it's a check or jam but I don't like either option lol

Thinking about it maybe just resigning myself to the fact that my chips are going in regardless and just go down a check/small bet then jam line hoping he is bluffing is the best approach. That way I keep in his bluffs at least.

THEROCK573 · April 2014

not in love with 3x here with ur stack size, id be min raising pre, half pot flop, which then gives you a bit more room to manovre on the turn.

grantorino · April 2014

Yeah less pre and on flop

What's the river plan for people advocating betting 1/7th of pot on turn? Are we b/f on turn?

I prob just jam

hhyftrftdr · April 2014

Stick it in on the turn and get looked up by a stubborn 88.

Easy game.

F_Ivanovic · April 2014

I don't mind sizing pre or post-flop. With this stack size we're not really looking to manouver post-flop we're looking to pot commit ourselves OTT. Your bet size OTF set you up nicely for a turn shove. Now it just comes down to playing the opponent - if they are passive then just shove and if they are aggressive then c/shove.

jdsallstar · April 2014

Thanks for all the feedback some good stuff there, many thanks.

Yeah raised the flop 600 to set up the shove on the turn but when the ace fell it just made me think was the shove then the right move. I think check/shove is the best option now.

Here's how the hand panned out for anyone that's interested:

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Poshbird	Small blind		60.00	60.00	5750.00
BCOOL	Big blind		120.00	180.00	7710.00
	Your hole cards	J J
jdsallstar	Raise		360.00	540.00	2265.00
kyp1961	Fold
x	Call		360.00	900.00	13795.00
nackywin	Fold
Poshbird	Fold
BCOOL	Fold
Flop
		6 4 3
jdsallstar	Bet		600.00	1500.00	1665.00
x	Call		600.00	2100.00	13195.00
Turn
		A
jdsallstar	All-in		1665.00	3765.00	0.00
x	Call		1665.00	5430.00	11530.00
jdsallstar	Show	J J
x	Show	5 A
River
		K
x	Win	Pair of Aces	5430.00		16960.00

And just for completeness here's how he got his stack initially (sigh):

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
jdsallstar	Small blind		30.00	30.00	5955.00
Matt237	Big blind		60.00	90.00	2000.00
	Your hole cards	Q Q
jod67	Call		60.00	150.00	4697.50
junior10	Fold
micro	Call		60.00	210.00	850.00
x	Raise		330.00	540.00	4397.50
jdsallstar	Raise		770.00	1310.00	5185.00
Matt237	Fold
jod67	Fold
micro	Call		740.00	2050.00	110.00
x	Call		470.00	2520.00	3927.50
Flop
		8 2 6
jdsallstar	Bet		1890.00	4410.00	3295.00
micro	All-in		110.00	4520.00	0.00
x	All-in		3927.50	8447.50	0.00
jdsallstar	Call		2037.50	10485.00	1257.50
jdsallstar	Show	Q Q
micro	Show	A 8
x	Show	J J
Turn
		2
River
		J
x	Win	Full House, Jacks and 2s	10485.00		10485.00

Matt237 · April 2014

I remember that hand lol

Matt237 · April 2014

I'm with Rock and Grant here min raise pre and go half p on flop, makes turn decision a little easier i feel.

CraigSG1 · April 2014

2x or 3x pre is irrelevant. What have you done previously? If you have been 2x-ing then 3x-ing is wrong because your indicating a change in your range.

As played I think you have to turn your hand into a bluff catcher on the turn and then re-evaluate the river.

What to do on the turn?

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