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cbet or Ch/Call?

craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
edited December 2021 in Strategy
both players are very passive with hands. normally what they'll do is just limp/call preflop "B does it even with QQ",
B has made a donk bet (2BB) in the past with a flush draw, he also made the same bet size when he had hit his flush on the turn, but with his QQ he has hit a set on a dangerous flop, choose to Ch/C,  when it came quads on the turn he Checked and i checked myself and he checked the river hoping i would do a bet which i didn't as i had 1010. and only saw K or Q calling.

Player A i've seen limp UTG and as i checked in BB he does a min bet post flop which i was thinking would be a just button clicking.
Q.should i just Ch/C and see if  scare card comes on the turn?
craigcu12 Small blind   100.00 100.00 3262.50
a Big blind   200.00 300.00 2870.00
  Your hole cards
  • J
  • K
     
SHAGGY Fold        
BaaLamb44 Fold        
b Call   200.00 500.00 4330.00
sir_alan Fold        
craigcu12 Raise   300.00 800.00 2962.50
a
Call   200.00 1000.00 2670.00
b Call   200.00 1200.00 4130.00
Flop
   
  • 2
  • 8
  • Q
     
craigcu12 ?

Comments

  • Nuggy962Nuggy962 Member Posts: 1,104
    edited June 2014
    Hi fella

    Not sure I would be planning anything in this spot, esp on the player reads. I personally do not get why just a min raise? Limpers never folding. You c bet half pot that inflates pot now to 1800, one guy calls and is now 2400 so you have a pot size bet left.

    For me taking a stab can be ok, but the inflated pot and lack of draws for you to improve means I give up in this spot. Check call is bad in my opinion as out of posistion and not deep enough to play around.

    What was thinking with min raise pre into a limped pot? 
  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited June 2014
    Raise size pre-flop achieves nothing. Got to be bigger.

    To answer your question c-bet or c/c the answer is neither. This is 100% a c/f.

    Your only 17bb deep you can't c/c floating oop hoping for a scare card. C-betting a hand with this little equity against 2 players oop out of this stack size is just bad.

    Stone wall c/f as played.


  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited June 2014
    part of my concern preflop was that player B has got a premium hand.

    i decided to minraise just to get rid of the very worst hands from the BB. what i am thinking now is if their was just too much risk in me playing this hand preflop OOP?

  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2014
    Easy check fold Craig. If you're gunna raise pre you have to go bigger!
  • seanallenseanallen Member Posts: 114
    edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: cbet or Ch/Call?:
    part of my concern preflop was that player B has got a premium hand. i decided to minraise just to get rid of the very worst hands from the BB. what i am thinking now is if their was just too much risk in me playing this hand preflop OOP?
    Posted by craigcu12
    Could just complete.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited June 2014
    so when i have calling stations and i am sitting our of position should i just keep my chip losses to a minimum rather than getting my the maximum value from draws knowing that i will never be able to get an idea of what sort of hand they will be holding and with MTTs i also won't have  the dominant chipstack i have in cash.
    mmmchips Small blind   50.00 50.00 4010.00
    craigcu12 Big blind   100.00 150.00 7865.00
      Your hole cards
    • 9
    • 9
         
    kateyes Fold        
    dangerdai Fold        
    bungle72 Fold        

    Call   100.00 250.00 17695.00
    mmmchips Fold        
    craigcu12 Raise   200.00 450.00 7665.00
      Call   200.00 650.00 17495.00
    Flop
       
    • Q
    • 4
    • 5
         
    craigcu12 Bet   300.00 950.00 7365.00
      Call   300.00 1250.00 17195.00
    Turn
       
    • J
         
    craigcu12 Bet   900.00 2150.00 6465.00
      Call   900.00 3050.00 16295.00
    River
       
    • 5
         
    craigcu12 Check        
      Bet   1525.00 4575.00 14770.00
    craigcu12 Call   1525.00 6100.00 4940.00
      Show
    • 7
    • Q
         
    craigcu12 Muck
    • 9
    • 9
         
      Win Two Pairs, Queens and 5s 6100.00   20870.00
    zxghostxz Small blind   200.00 200.00 3885.00
    craigcu12 Big blind   400.00 600.00 14870.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • Q
         
    dabossman Fold        
    Slykllist Fold        

    Call   400.00 1000.00 24487.50
    zxghostxz Fold        
    craigcu12 Raise   800.00 1800.00 14070.00
      Call   800.00 2600.00 23687.50
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • 6
    • 6
         
    craigcu12 Bet   1300.00 3900.00 12770.00
      Call   1300.00 5200.00 22387.50
    Turn
       
    • 5
         
    craigcu12 Bet   1200.00 6400.00 11570.00
      Call   1200.00 7600.00 21187.50
    River
       
    • 6
         
    craigcu12 Bet   4000.00 11600.00 7570.00
      Call   4000.00 15600.00 17187.50
    craigcu12 Show
    • A
    • Q
         
      Show
    • K
    • 10
         
      Win Full House, 6s and 10s 15600.00   32787.50
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited June 2014
    these two hands are just another two examples of why i'm questioning if i play too aggressive in MTTs
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited June 2014
    Bet sizing looks a little off Craig.

    And deffo just give up on that first hand.
  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2014
    On your 2nd post that first hand check call is a little silly imo.
    2nd hand your bet sizes dont really make sense. Maybe barrell the turn a little bigger and give up on the river.
  • Nuggy962Nuggy962 Member Posts: 1,104
    edited June 2014
    got to bet bigger if going to get anyone to fold. 

    In cash - you find people call you off lighter as is not your tourny life on the line so can get some value.

    However - in the MTT - and in your examples - you either have to bet inline with the story you are telling or give up.  If you have a read they are calling stations - I would result to ABC poker and get max value from my made hands.  I would also stop the min raising pre flop - is only inflating the pot.

    People in MTT's (Mainly) respect their tourny life and will not call with air - however - is always the exceptions, just got to fish them out!

    Seems like from previous posts your cash game is very solid(I am jealous)  -  obviously MTT's play out very different and when not that deep - every move has to have a reason or cold be your last
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited June 2014
    what i have noticed myself now is these hands have each got 3 things in common.
    a limper who has position, a flop which has flush draws+ a broard way card and myself with a hand that is going to have a difficult decision on the turn if i'm called.

    what i'm thinking now is when i am sitting out of position against passive players, if the flop is a wet one should i do a weak bet on the flop when i've got something  and show my real strength either on the turn or on the river.






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