cbet or Ch/Call?

craigcu12 · June 2014

both players are very passive with hands. normally what they'll do is just limp/call preflop "B does it even with QQ",
B has made a donk bet (2BB) in the past with a flush draw, he also made the same bet size when he had hit his flush on the turn, but with his QQ he has hit a set on a dangerous flop, choose to Ch/C, when it came quads on the turn he Checked and i checked myself and he checked the river hoping i would do a bet which i didn't as i had 1010. and only saw K or Q calling.

Player A i've seen limp UTG and as i checked in BB he does a min bet post flop which i was thinking would be a just button clicking.
Q.should i just Ch/C and see if scare card comes on the turn?

Flop
craigcu12	Small blind		100.00	100.00	3262.50
a	Big blind		200.00	300.00	2870.00
	Your hole cards	J K
SHAGGY	Fold
BaaLamb44	Fold
b	Call		200.00	500.00	4330.00
sir_alan	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		300.00	800.00	2962.50
a	Call		200.00	1000.00	2670.00
b	Call		200.00	1200.00	4130.00
		2 8 Q
craigcu12	?

Nuggy962 · June 2014

Hi fella

Not sure I would be planning anything in this spot, esp on the player reads. I personally do not get why just a min raise? Limpers never folding. You c bet half pot that inflates pot now to 1800, one guy calls and is now 2400 so you have a pot size bet left.

For me taking a stab can be ok, but the inflated pot and lack of draws for you to improve means I give up in this spot. Check call is bad in my opinion as out of posistion and not deep enough to play around.

What was thinking with min raise pre into a limped pot?

77Chris91 · June 2014

Raise size pre-flop achieves nothing. Got to be bigger.

To answer your question c-bet or c/c the answer is neither. This is 100% a c/f.

Your only 17bb deep you can't c/c floating oop hoping for a scare card. C-betting a hand with this little equity against 2 players oop out of this stack size is just bad.

Stone wall c/f as played.

craigcu12 · June 2014

part of my concern preflop was that player B has got a premium hand.

i decided to minraise just to get rid of the very worst hands from the BB. what i am thinking now is if their was just too much risk in me playing this hand preflop OOP?

Matt237 · June 2014

Easy check fold Craig. If you're gunna raise pre you have to go bigger!

seanallen · June 2014

In Response to Re: cbet or Ch/Call?:

part of my concern preflop was that player B has got a premium hand. i decided to minraise just to get rid of the very worst hands from the BB. what i am thinking now is if their was just too much risk in me playing this hand preflop OOP?
Posted by craigcu12

Could just complete.

craigcu12 · June 2014

so when i have calling stations and i am sitting our of position should i just keep my chip losses to a minimum rather than getting my the maximum value from draws knowing that i will never be able to get an idea of what sort of hand they will be holding and with MTTs i also won't have the dominant chipstack i have in cash.

Flop
mmmchips	Small blind		50.00	50.00	4010.00
craigcu12	Big blind		100.00	150.00	7865.00
	Your hole cards	9 9
kateyes	Fold
dangerdai	Fold
bungle72	Fold
	Call		100.00	250.00	17695.00
mmmchips	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		200.00	450.00	7665.00
	Call		200.00	650.00	17495.00
		Q 4 5
craigcu12	Bet		300.00	950.00	7365.00
	Call		300.00	1250.00	17195.00
Turn
		J
craigcu12	Bet		900.00	2150.00	6465.00
	Call		900.00	3050.00	16295.00
River
		5
craigcu12	Check
	Bet		1525.00	4575.00	14770.00
craigcu12	Call		1525.00	6100.00	4940.00
	Show	7 Q
craigcu12	Muck	9 9
	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and 5s	6100.00		20870.00

Flop
zxghostxz	Small blind		200.00	200.00	3885.00
craigcu12	Big blind		400.00	600.00	14870.00
	Your hole cards	A Q
dabossman	Fold
Slykllist	Fold
	Call		400.00	1000.00	24487.50
zxghostxz	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		800.00	1800.00	14070.00
	Call		800.00	2600.00	23687.50
		10 6 6
craigcu12	Bet		1300.00	3900.00	12770.00
	Call		1300.00	5200.00	22387.50
Turn
		5
craigcu12	Bet		1200.00	6400.00	11570.00
	Call		1200.00	7600.00	21187.50
River
		6
craigcu12	Bet		4000.00	11600.00	7570.00
	Call		4000.00	15600.00	17187.50
craigcu12	Show	A Q
	Show	K 10
	Win	Full House, 6s and 10s	15600.00		32787.50

craigcu12 · June 2014

these two hands are just another two examples of why i'm questioning if i play too aggressive in MTTs

hhyftrftdr · June 2014

Bet sizing looks a little off Craig.

And deffo just give up on that first hand.

Matt237 · June 2014

On your 2nd post that first hand check call is a little silly imo.

2nd hand your bet sizes dont really make sense. Maybe barrell the turn a little bigger and give up on the river.

Nuggy962 · June 2014

got to bet bigger if going to get anyone to fold.

In cash - you find people call you off lighter as is not your tourny life on the line so can get some value.

However - in the MTT - and in your examples - you either have to bet inline with the story you are telling or give up. If you have a read they are calling stations - I would result to ABC poker and get max value from my made hands. I would also stop the min raising pre flop - is only inflating the pot.

People in MTT's (Mainly) respect their tourny life and will not call with air - however - is always the exceptions, just got to fish them out!

Seems like from previous posts your cash game is very solid(I am jealous) - obviously MTT's play out very different and when not that deep - every move has to have a reason or cold be your last

craigcu12 · June 2014

what i have noticed myself now is these hands have each got 3 things in common.
a limper who has position, a flop which has flush draws+ a broard way card and myself with a hand that is going to have a difficult decision on the turn if i'm called.

what i'm thinking now is when i am sitting out of position against passive players, if the flop is a wet one should i do a weak bet on the flop when i've got something and show my real strength either on the turn or on the river.

cbet or Ch/Call?

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