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Overplayed against aggro oppo??

waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,067
edited December 2021 in Strategy
This is from the turbo open.

Oppo had been raising pretty much every button. His range here is going to be wide. Not sure if I took the best option here? Pretty much committed my stack with the 3bet? Should I just be flatting, shoving or even folding?? Given that it was a turbo structure I basically just went for it.....not sure about it now though. When he comes back over the top I fear I could be in bad shape but felt I had to call?

We had previously clashed in the same spot after I had 3bet him with A6 (which he saw) so he may not be giving my 3bet range a great deal of respect??

Thoughts please. Given my reads on oppo, how should I have played it?
waller02 Small blind  100.00 100.00 4216.25
splashies Big blind  200.00 300.00 1920.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • 10
     
julie59 Fold     
russsteve Fold     
Boostar30 Fold     
 Raise  400.00 700.00 8130.00
waller02 Raise  1300.00 2000.00 2916.25
splashies Fold     
 All-in  8130.00 10130.00 0.00
waller02 Have to call? 
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Comments

  • Nuggy962Nuggy962 Member Posts: 1,104
    edited June 2014
    As payed - Tough spot - I think that a fold is a must here going on what you have said.

    If you have 3 bet him before and he called with K10 in pos - makes me think that his 4 bet jam range is better than that - plus he is probably expecting a call given what you leave behind.

    Your stack is still 15BB if you fold - so in a turbo that makes it wasy to play with - shove or fold.

    I think if you call here you are at best flipping imo if he shows 99 or worse.  FWIW - I would not be playing A10 there unless your happy to get it all in pre anyway


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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited June 2014
    It would be quite a big shove but means you can't be exploited...

    If I'm 3betting its with the intentions of getting it in.....so 3bet call off, though A10 shrinks somewhat when put all in, or shoving pre and fully expecting it to get through.
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,067
    edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: Overplayed against aggro oppo??:
    It would be quite a big shove but means you can't be exploited... If I'm 3betting its with the intentions of getting it in.....so 3bet call off, though A10 shrinks somewhat when put all in, or shoving pre and fully expecting it to get through.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    Yeah my A10 shrunk more than more than my meat and 2 veg on a cold winters day.......I did call, I knew I was going to before I 3bet although I would obviously preferred him to fold. I guess my main question is given what I have said about oppo was it a good spot to be 3b/getting it in??

    I had 20bb and it was a turbo. Should I have just called and seen a flop?
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  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2014
    If you're gunna 3 bet i think you have to get it in
    Personally i'd just flat
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited June 2014
    Think I'd rather fold than call tbh.
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  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: Overplayed against aggro oppo??:
    Think I'd rather fold than call tbh.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    A10 to a button raise?
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited June 2014
    Just not a big fan of peeling OOP from this stack size. Gonna have to check fold so many flops/turns. Turbo structure makes it more important to retain chips where possible.

    If we flop well, it's unlikely we'll get paid off.....unless of course we're crushed in which case we're busto as we will struggle to get away from a 10/ A high flop.

    If blinds are about to go up, I might just 3bet all in. If they have just gone up, I might 3bet call it off or maybe just fold pre. Would depend on the dynamic, and by sounds of it the villain is active which makes a shove more appealing, as A10 is probably a touch too weak to 3bet induce worse.
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  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2014
    Actually more i think about it, i like a 3b all in.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,409
    edited June 2014
    How wide do you think his shoving range is?

    HandEquityWinsTies
    AsTh46.76%87,483,5994,390,716
    44-AA, A7+, KJ+, QT53.24%99,903,7334,390,716
    We need 33.7% equity to call... so against the above, it's a snap call.

    HandEquityWinsTies
    AsTh38.68%45,273,0772,167,872
    77+, AJ+, KQ61.32%72,420,3312,167,872
    Against an even tighter range it's a very clear call. Taking out KQ and adding in 66 and our equity becomes just about break even. For folding to be correct they'd need to be shoving only 77+ and AJ+

    That being said we should never be 3betting here with the intention of folding. If we 3-bet it's to induce action from worse aces (A2-A9) and stuff like KT+, KJ if we don't mind getting into a flip now. If we're confused about what to do after being 3bet then by the far the best opton pre was to just go all in.
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  • jordz16jordz16 Member Posts: 2,253
    edited June 2014
    I'd always call once i had 3 bet from that stack, i prefer a smaller 3 bet to maybe 1k, 1.1k. Saying that from a 20bb stack if i 3bet i am always calling off a shove unless its a complete raggy bluff. I think it comes down to your opponent as the whether you have any reads on him and believe you can outplay him/ get away cheaply on most flops. if you believe you can do that then flat it. but personally id be trying to get it in from what you have said. 
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  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 9,067
    edited June 2014
    Yeah I was never 3bet folding although I wasn't liking it so much when he did shove. I walked into KK but given how active he had been on the button I think I was just unlucky.

    So is the general opinion here (against this oppo)  3bet />fold>flat call ??
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  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: Overplayed against aggro oppo??:
    Yeah I was never 3bet folding although I wasn't liking it so much when he did shove. I walked into KK but given how active he had been on the button I think I was just unlucky. So is the general opinion here (against this oppo)  3bet />fold />flat call ??
    Posted by waller02
    I wouldn't consider folding here with the reads you stated
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  • Nuggy962Nuggy962 Member Posts: 1,104
    edited June 2014
    I fold or shove vs opponent with that read, you get called and A10 out of pos is not great to play with stack left behind. 


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  • deadeyeddeadeyed Member Posts: 24
    edited June 2014

    you need to decide on your plan BEFORE you 3 bet, not after he has 4 bet jammed. you have around 20bbs to start the hand, i am never 3 bet folding with this stack. As played i think you have to call it off but i would have preferred a 3 bet jam with that stack size. You mention he is an aggro player so 3 bet to induce a shove is fine too.

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  • K8LOUK8LOU Member Posts: 630
    edited June 2014
    I was about to say I like just jamming but there in no antes in play for that reason I think I would be 3 betting to gii, if hes opening as wide as you say he is you will have the best hand the majority of the time and you also have lots of his range crushed! in spots like this when im opening tons of buttons I tend to level myself and think ppl are playing back at me so I wouldnt be surprised iif he shows up with a rag ace or k9/k10/kj/kq I think this is a cooler givin dynamics, never 3 bet folding here think you played it fine mate.
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  • Batkin88Batkin88 Member Posts: 1,682
    edited June 2014
    I would 3 bet to around 900-1100 if you are considering folding a 4 bet.

    IMO I would fold pre or possible shove. But the shove would depend on the structure of the tourney, how long I had been in and how many are left.
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