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Look to play for stacks on the flop?

hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
edited January 2015 in Strategy
cmb1963 Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £10.08
Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £39.80
  Your hole cards
  • 5
  • A
     
hhyftrftdr Raise  £0.60 £0.90 £39.40
cmb1963 Fold     
Raise  £1.60 £2.50 £38.20
hhyftrftdr Call  £1.20 £3.70 £38.20
Flop
   
  • 3
  • 8
  • 2
     
Check     
hhyftrftdr Bet  £2.78 £6.48 £35.42
Raise  £8.00 £14.48 £30.20
20nl Mastercash table that has just started going. Maybe one orbit in. Have no notes/history on villain but I don't think he's a random as I do recognise the name, he was also on one of my other tables at the time.

Obviously great flop for me but his check raise did make me wonder. Should I pile the money in now, or is my equity so strong that I can call his raise and GII on any turn card, potentially leaving him a bit pot stuck if he does have an airball/something marginal and leads the turn...

Thoughts much appreciated :)

Comments

  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited January 2015
    Get it in now Son!!!

    Ps. Feel free to totally disregard this considered advice, refer to my good self as an idiot and hit the ignore user BTN.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,960
    edited January 2015
    actually i'm thinking myself maybe just making the call the flop and then going al in on the turn.

    The board itself is very raggy, having did a Ch/R, if you held 22 33 or 88, would you not call a set then get the rest in on the turn?

    playing it as you want it to be played, i would go and shove the lot in right away whilst the pot is still smaller than stack, the only raise. The only raise i think will still get him to fold on the turn is a min raise, even that will have made him commit more to the pot than he has left in his stack.

    He's played it very strong on a very raggy board and the only hand guarenteed to call is 88, the weakest and most unlikely part of his range.

    knowing you've got an A5 his runner runner flush is the KxKc at best therefore you'll have even more outs and if he's done it with AA you'll know he can't get the runner runner flush.

    so based on on what you attempting to rep his AA is drawing to 2 aces or runner runner straight and if he were to call thinking he's ahead and without the Ac he might be more worried about the flush draw. The rest of his premium pairs, they'll know that the A is just as dangerous to the nut flush draw as it is to the 54s
  • mrdaviesmrdavies Member Posts: 475
    edited January 2015
    Im just getting it in! all clubs are live, I would say all Aces are live as he cant have AK/AQc and also got ya random 4! Ace high could even be good if he has showed your button raise no respect and just re raised you with a QKc Q10c JQc?

    Thats only my opinion, I would get it in snappy!
  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,925
    edited January 2015
    I haven't played this stoooopid game for ages, but isn't it a routine call in position?

    Doesn't look like he's folding anything apart from his air which he probably has almost 0% anyway with a 3b pre / cr flop line and there are hardly any draws that he can have. Any that are there we probably beat at showdown anyway when he bets turn and gives up river when we both miss or ofc stack when we both get there.


  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited January 2015
    Dohhh has pretty much nailed it tbh.

    Call flop ip. Your just taking a 200bb flip vs his value range if you gii here. Your ahead of all his semi-bluffs and your always going to realise your equity here because were basically not folding on any turn.

    I think a lot of people gii on the flop here just because its makes the hand a easier to play.
  • mrdaviesmrdavies Member Posts: 475
    edited January 2015
    If he has JJ,99,10 What do we do when turn pairs board or is a brick and he fires another 3/4 pot bet?
  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Look to play for stacks on the flop?:
    If he has JJ,99,10 What do we do when turn pairs board or is a brick and he fires another 3/4 pot bet?
    Posted by mrdavies
    If he bets 3/4 pot we can just call again.

    If HH calls flop pot will be £19.70. Villain bets 3/4 pot (£14.78) on the turn as per your example. HH needs now needs to call £14.78 to win £49.26.   14.78/49.26 = 30% equity needed.

    If villain only has 9's, 10's and J's here then we have 16 outs. (9 clubs, 3 aces, 4 fours)       16/47= 34% equity.

    Obviously villain won't always have just 9's - J's in his range so our equity is gonna be higher than 34%. 
  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,395
    edited January 2015
    I just GII by making a smallish 4-bet. Villain 3-bet pre so we're never going to be up against a set I assume and mostly we'll be up against big overpairs. AA is unlikely, so we have any A, 5 or club as outs. Our equity is good, but definitely not strong enough to "slowplay" - if we flat and miss the turn and villain bets big enough we could be forced out the pot - which is a disaster considering how much equity we had on flop. Alternatively if we hit the turn, villain may slow down and we may miss value off him.

    Given a lot of his range is overpairs too, we could potentially get villain off his hand by a flop 3-bet. Villain certainly shouldn't be thrilled GII when our range is monster draws and sets. 

    Villain isn't likely to have air on this flop but even suppose he did, he's shutting down on turn anyway. A small flop 4-bet will probably shut him down turn, but it might induce him to just ship it in. If villain is raising a worse FD, it's likely he's bad enough to then not be folding when faced with a 4-bet - so yeah, we don't miss out on any value if villain does have a worse FD.


  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Look to play for stacks on the flop?:
    I just GII by making a smallish 4-bet. Villain 3-bet pre so we're never going to be up against a set I assume and mostly we'll be up against big overpairs. AA is unlikely, so we have any A, 5 or club as outs. Our equity is good, but definitely not strong enough to "slowplay" - if we flat and miss the turn and villain bets big enough we could be forced out the pot - which is a disaster considering how much equity we had on flop. Alternatively if we hit the turn, villain may slow down and we may miss value off him. Given a lot of his range is overpairs too, we could potentially get villain off his hand by a flop 3-bet. Villain certainly shouldn't be thrilled GII when our range is monster draws and sets.  Villain isn't likely to have air on this flop but even suppose he did, he's shutting down on turn anyway. A small flop 4-bet will probably shut him down turn, but it might induce him to just ship it in. If villain is raising a worse FD, it's likely he's bad enough to then not be folding when faced with a 4-bet - so yeah, we don't miss out on any value if villain does have a worse FD.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Exactly what I was trying to get across in my abrupt post. I just can't articulate myself as well as Ivan.

    ps...what happened Harry?
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015
    I stuck it right in his eye on the flop, he semi tank called with KK.

    Result doesn't matter eh ;)
  • SJspanky1SJspanky1 Member Posts: 620
    edited January 2015


    Of course not but I'll sleep easier tonight if I know you hit the winner.....
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015

    I won.

  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,804
    edited January 2015
    I'm in the GII now bregade, probably by making a 4 bet as it looks so much stronger, as I think he has an overpair a lot and our equity is so good right now and if the board pairs/bricks or even makes our hand it can kill the action. But more importantly I think is we can get better hands to fold thus increasing our +EV with this play without having to hit. Who would call off here with 1010,JJ and even QQ and maybe even KK and AA although that likely hood drops its still possible.
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