In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Hi Ronnie, Yup, it's THE most peculiar game to try & explain to newbies. It's often the case that a player registers for PLO8 in error, then types in the chat box "how do you play this game?" I mean, how are we meant to describe it in a few sentences? The Low pot - which may or may not exist - has no straights, flushes, pairs, 2 pairs, sets, flushes or full houses. The High Pot - there is always a high - obeys the normal rules of poker. And on most occasions, we split the pot. And our nut low can result in us receiving only one third or one sixth of the pot. Go figure. Fortunately, many players still think the game revolves around good low hands. Thank goodness for them. They are our profit. Stu Rutter's analysis? Yup, stunningly good, he really gets poker. I had the misfortune to share 2 Tables with Stu in Vegas last year (2015...) in WSOP PLO8 Events. He's tough to play. Oddly, he plays all the mixed games, & very well, but he does not play PLO. Posted by Tikay10
But Aces can be a low card, as well as a high card, and A2345 is best hand, though there are no straights or flushes; and the best hand must be any 5 (2 from hand 3 from board) lower than 8 high. It is like the rules to throw the Holy Grenade of Antioch in Monty Python. Thou shalt not count a card above 8, thee Ace doth be the best high card but yea, also the best low card. Thou shalt not counst 456 8 and then a 9, nor shall thou count thy card suit. A 2 3 4 5 shall be the best hand - not ace 2 3 5 6, nor A 2 3 4 6...
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : But Aces can be a low card, as well as a high card, and A2345 is best hand, though there are no straights or flushes; and the best hand must be any 5 (2 from hand 3 from board) lower than 8 high. It is like the rules to throw the Holy Grenade of Antioch in Monty Python. Thou shalt not count a card above 8, thee Ace doth be the best high card but yea, also the best low card. Thou shalt not counst 456 8 and then a 9, nor shall thou count thy card suit. A 2 3 4 5 shall be the best hand - not ace 2 3 5 6, nor A 2 3 4 6... Posted by BigRonnieC
Ha, or even poker's version of Mornington Crescent.
As I wrote earlier, when someone registers for a PLO8 game by mistake, & innocently asks "how do you play this game", how are we supposed to reply succinctly?
There's a clue in there as to the "secret" of PLO8, too - the Ace effectively being TWO cards. Anyone who does not recognize that will be a loser in the game.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Ha, or even poker's version of Mornington Crescent. As I wrote earlier, when someone registers for a PLO8 game by mistake, & innocently asks "how do you play this game", how are we supposed to reply succinctly? There's a clue in there as to the "secret" of PLO8, too - the Ace effectively being TWO cards. Anyone who does not recognize that will be a loser in the game. PS - Post more please, I much enjoy your writing. Posted by Tikay10
I write for national newspapers here - I am just, shall we say, curtailed with the humour I can use in a legal and business section of a Sunday paper
I am happy to stick with hold'em; I am reading about PLO8 (surely it pays to know what less people understand???) but if you think about it, it really is such an oddball game. I can imagine that THAT is what draws players to it. I just don't want to be the sucker at the table and not understand the jokes about me.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : I write for national newspapers here - I am just, shall we say, curtailed with the humour I can use in a legal and business section of a Sunday paper I am happy to stick with hold'em; I am reading about PLO8 (surely it pays to know what less people understand???) but if you think about it, it really is such an oddball game. I can imagine that THAT is what draws players to it. I just don't want to be the sucker at the table and not understand the jokes about me. Posted by BigRonnieC
Don't worry about it Ronnie share a few tables with me and we will split the jokes between us lol
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Don't worry about it Ronnie share a few tables with me and we will split the jokes between us lol Posted by weecheez1
Yeah, you take the high pot of telling the joke and I take the low pot of being the joke! No thanks!
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Yeah, you take the high pot of telling the joke and I take the low pot of being the joke! No thanks! Posted by BigRonnieC
I am currently reading "The Professor, The Banker and the Suicide King". Great book btw, I am nearly finished 2 days after postman woke me early (I'm not angry at all) - learned about 72 razz and, though I played and won money at it once, stud.
I won't mention Chinese Poker as that would take 2000 hieroglyphs to illustrate, but other forms of poker seem appealing now. Omaha just comes across (initially - correct me if wrong) as a nit game very dependent on hole cards.
I am currently reading "The Professor, The Banker and the Suicide King". Great book btw, I am nearly finished 2 days after postman woke me early (I'm not angry at all) - learned about 72 razz and, though I played and won money at it once, stud. I won't mention Chinese Poker as that would take 2000 hieroglyphs to illustrate, but other forms of poker seem appealing now. Omaha just comes across (initially - correct me if wrong) as a nit game very dependent on hole cards. In a few sentences, sell me Omaha - and hi/lo. Posted by BigRonnieC
I do wish you'd post more Ronnie, & not just in the Hand Analysis boards. Love your Posts, all of them.
Anyway, to your question.
More fun.
More action.
Bigger hands. Boats, flushes & sets happen so much more frequently.
We are "allowed" to limp pre, assuming sensible stack sixes relative to blinds.
It's a drawing game, not a game of made hands.
More skill required. (Arguably).
More thought required.
Pot Limit is brain not brawn.
More people play it badly.
Played by people who, though only my perception, are more friendly.
The fact that so few play the game suggests I'm wrong, of course. Probably.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : I do wish you'd post more Ronnie, & not just in the Hand Analysis boards. Love your Posts, all of them. Anyway, to your question. More fun. More action. Bigger hands. Boats, flushes & sets happen so much more frequently. We are "allowed" to limp pre, assuming sensible stack sixes relative to blinds. It's a drawing game, not a game of made hands. More skill required. (Arguably). More thought required. Pot Limit is brain not brawn. More people play it badly. Played by people who, though only my perception, are more friendly. The fact that so few play the game suggests I'm wrong, of course. Probably. Posted by Tikay10
I learned the hard way that most winning hands are made hands at set/straight level or above if betting goes to river.
Is limping "good play" in a ring game? Any suggestions on a good Omaha guide (preferably on paper so I can pretend I am working) would be appreciated.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : I learned the hard way that most winning hands are made hands at set/straight level or above if betting goes to river. Is limping "good play" in a ring game? Any suggestions on a good Omaha guide (preferably on paper so I can pretend I am working) would be appreciated. Posted by BigRonnieC
Morning Ronnie,
Limping or peeling is not terrible in PLO or PLO8, though a raise is often better. Omaha is not a pre-flop game, it's a post flop game.
I'm generally raising pre with a strong hand (position & situation dependant), but I'm also generally coming along with strong, preferably suited or DS rundowns. It's not always wise to raise with, say, 9-10-J-Q, but I'd almost NEVER fold it pre even if we think Villain has Aces. Our hand has so many ways to improve, where Aces, especially bad one, don't easily improve, they generally have just 2 improvers, so it's a case of "can they hold?" v "can we hit a good flop & improve".
I'll put some Omaha hints & tips, (including some Omaha videos I made recently), up in due course - may not be today - which I hope you'll find interesting.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : I learned the hard way that most winning hands are made hands at set/straight level or above if betting goes to river. Is limping "good play" in a ring game? Any suggestions on a good Omaha guide (preferably on paper so I can pretend I am working) would be appreciated. Posted by BigRonnieC
Hi Ronnie,
I promised to reply with some Omaha stuff. My problem is I don't know what level you are at in Omaha.
For written stuff, (which you requested) I can't find much on our site (plenty available via google), here's a few video clips. I must stress, this is just beginners ABC stuff.
If, as I suspect, you already have some basic idea, these are probably a little better. These are "actual play" where, as the hands develop, I discuss the thinking street by street.
This one here is a beautiful example of the difference between NLH & PLO. Here I have Queens full, but just flat call on the river. Why?
In Response to Re: This one here is a beautiful example of the difference between NLH & PLO. Here I have Queens full, but just flat call on the river. Why?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkkPm0oJu98 Posted by Tikay10
Good morning Tikay.
I'm familiar with PLO (just not the 8 variety) but I'm watching the videos anyway. I don't know if I'm missing something very obvious here, but why does the pot change from 30p to 27p after the flop is dealt? It appears Phantom makes an overbet on the flop (30p into 27p).
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Good morning Tikay. I'm familiar with PLO (just not the 8 variety) but I'm watching the videos anyway. I don't know if I'm missing something very obvious here, but why does the pot change from 30p to 27p after the flop is dealt? It appears Phantom makes an overbet on the flop (30p into 27p). Posted by NoseyBonk
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Hi Ronnie, I promised to reply with some Omaha stuff. My problem is I don't know what level you are at in Omaha. For written stuff, (which you requested) I can't find much on our site (plenty available via google), here's a few video clips. I must stress, this is just beginners ABC stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em1TLHs9xZshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_FtDaghOYw If, as I suspect, you already have some basic idea, these are probably a little better. These are "actual play" where, as the hands develop, I discuss the thinking street by street. This one here is a beautiful example of the difference between NLH & PLO. Here I have Queens full, but just flat call on the river. Why? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkkPm0oJu98 Here's Part 2 of the same series; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j5jHoyEJlc ...and Part 3...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNk384ItOrk Posted by Tikay10
Thanks a million Tikay. I know rules of Omaha and hi/lo but have not played much except through curiosity. You could shove basics though my eyeballs but I like to know why you're doing it and that takes experience (like folding an AA or KK post flop - it is an acquired feeling - learn texture, player, game - you know what I mean).
I am still getting comfortable again with hold 'em after a long break - Up a good bit given "bankroll" (I have ten bankrolls in my wallet but that's irrelevant, I ain't gambling with it) - still relearning feel for stealing blinds, bluffing pots with tight image and, never an issue at low stakes - trapping with good hands.
Post flop play requires a lot more skill, Omaha is a post flop game, so I'm happy taking it slow and steady.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : rake? Posted by HENDRIK62
Guess it must be. It's just that in all the time I've been watching Sky Poker/videos/etc I've never seen it presented that way (that I recall anyway), where it's deducted immediately for the pot but the player can still bet the original pot amount.
Don't play cash so maybe it's the norm - just thinking about what I've seen on the shows and the like.
Comments
As I wrote earlier, when someone registers for a PLO8 game by mistake, & innocently asks "how do you play this game", how are we supposed to reply succinctly?
There's a clue in there as to the "secret" of PLO8, too - the Ace effectively being TWO cards. Anyone who does not recognize that will be a loser in the game.
PS - Post more please, I much enjoy your writing.
Anyway, to your question.
More fun.
More action.
Bigger hands. Boats, flushes & sets happen so much more frequently.
We are "allowed" to limp pre, assuming sensible stack sixes relative to blinds.
It's a drawing game, not a game of made hands.
More skill required. (Arguably).
More thought required.
Pot Limit is brain not brawn.
More people play it badly.
Played by people who, though only my perception, are more friendly.
The fact that so few play the game suggests I'm wrong, of course. Probably.
Limping or peeling is not terrible in PLO or PLO8, though a raise is often better. Omaha is not a pre-flop game, it's a post flop game.
I'm generally raising pre with a strong hand (position & situation dependant), but I'm also generally coming along with strong, preferably suited or DS rundowns. It's not always wise to raise with, say, 9-10-J-Q, but I'd almost NEVER fold it pre even if we think Villain has Aces. Our hand has so many ways to improve, where Aces, especially bad one, don't easily improve, they generally have just 2 improvers, so it's a case of "can they hold?" v "can we hit a good flop & improve".
I'll put some Omaha hints & tips, (including some Omaha videos I made recently), up in due course - may not be today - which I hope you'll find interesting.
I promised to reply with some Omaha stuff. My problem is I don't know what level you are at in Omaha.
For written stuff, (which you requested) I can't find much on our site (plenty available via google), here's a few video clips. I must stress, this is just beginners ABC stuff.
If, as I suspect, you already have some basic idea, these are probably a little better. These are "actual play" where, as the hands develop, I discuss the thinking street by street.
This one here is a beautiful example of the difference between NLH & PLO. Here I have Queens full, but just flat call on the river. Why?
Here's Part 2 of the same series;
...and Part 3......