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Pseudorandom number generators
SEPERABIT
Member Posts: 47
in Poker Chat
after all the years of is it rigged or is it not thought i would put this on and see what people think as I'am sure there must be a few tech savvy people out there that will be able to say that it really is random or is it only as good as the input that has been pre programed in?
Now fair enough this is from skys bingo site but if the prng on there is only as good as the input does the same apply on the poker rng?
links below.
https://support.skybingo.com/s/article/Sky-Bingo-Game-Rules
4. Sky Bingo software and the Random Number Generator
4.1 The software for Sky Bingo is powered by Virtue Fusion, who use a software-based Pseudo Random Number Generator (PRNG) developed by Sun Microsystems. The PRNG implements the SHA1PRNG algorithm, which is made available by the Java 2 Standard Edition 5 library class java.security.SecureRandom.
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then you find stuff like this online.
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/security-crypto-provider-deprecated-in.html
Security "Crypto" provider deprecated in Android N
09 June 2016
Posted by Sergio Giro, software engineer
random_droid
If your Android app derives keys using the SHA1PRNG algorithm from the Crypto provider, you must start using a real key derivation function and possibly re-encrypt your data.
The Java Cryptography Architecture allows developers to create an instance of a class like a cipher, or a pseudo-random number generator, using calls like:
SomeClass.getInstance("SomeAlgorithm", "SomeProvider");
Or simply:
SomeClass.getInstance("SomeAlgorithm");
For instance,
Cipher.getInstance(“AES/CBC/PKCS5PADDING”); SecureRandom.getInstance(“SHA1PRNG”);
On Android, we don’t recommend specifying the provider. In general, any call to the Java Cryptography Extension (JCE) APIs specifying a provider should only be done if the provider is included in the application or if the application is able to deal with a possible ProviderNotFoundException.
Unfortunately, many apps depend on the now removed “Crypto” provider for an anti-pattern of key derivation.
This provider only provided an implementation of the algorithm “SHA1PRNG” for instances of SecureRandom. The problem is that the SHA1PRNG algorithm is not cryptographically strong. For readers interested in the details, On statistical distance based testing of pseudo random sequences and experiments with PHP and Debian OpenSSL,Section 8.1, by Yongge Want and Tony Nicol, states that the “random” sequence, considered in binary form, is biased towards returning 0s, and that the bias worsens depending on the seed.
As a result, in Android N we are deprecating the implementation of the SHA1PRNG algorithm and the Crypto provider altogether. We’d previously covered the issues with using SecureRandom for key derivation a few years ago in Using Cryptography to Store Credentials Safely. However, given its continued use, we will revisit it here.
A common but incorrect usage of this provider was to derive keys for encryption by using a password as a seed. The implementation of SHA1PRNG had a bug that made it deterministic if setSeed() was called before obtaining output. This bug was used to derive a key by supplying a password as a seed, and then using the "random" output bytes for the key (where “random” in this sentence means “predictable and cryptographically weak”). Such a key could then be used to encrypt and decrypt data.
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what? thats where the clever people come in!
so what is rng and is it trully random?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation
Random number generation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (June 2009) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
When a cubical die is rolled, a random number between 1 and 6 is obtained.
Random number generation is the generation of a sequence of numbers or symbols that cannot be reasonably predicted better than by a random chance, usually through a hardware random-number generator (RNG).
Various applications of randomness have led to the development of several different methods for generating random data, of which some have existed since ancient times, among whose ranks are well-known "classic" examples, including the rolling of dice, coin flipping, the shuffling of playing cards, the use of yarrow stalks (for divination) in the I Ching, as well as countless other techniques. Because of the mechanical nature of these techniques, generating large numbers of sufficiently random numbers (important in statistics) required a lot of work and/or time. Thus, results would sometimes be collected and distributed as random number tables. Nowadays, after the advent of computational random-number generators, a growing number[quantify] of government-run lotteries and lottery games have started[when?] using RNGs instead of more traditional drawing methods. RNGs are also used to determine the outcomes of modern slot machines.[1]
Several computational methods for random-number generation exist. Many fall short of the goal of true randomness, although they may meet, with varying success, some of the statistical tests for randomness intended to measure how unpredictable their results are (that is, to what degree their patterns are discernible). However, carefully designed cryptographically secure computationally based methods of generating random numbers also exist, such as those based on the Yarrow algorithm, the Fortuna (PRNG), and others.
So is a rng really random?
P.s hopefully spacing and punctuation where used properly for the sites teachers
Now fair enough this is from skys bingo site but if the prng on there is only as good as the input does the same apply on the poker rng?
links below.
https://support.skybingo.com/s/article/Sky-Bingo-Game-Rules
4. Sky Bingo software and the Random Number Generator
4.1 The software for Sky Bingo is powered by Virtue Fusion, who use a software-based Pseudo Random Number Generator (PRNG) developed by Sun Microsystems. The PRNG implements the SHA1PRNG algorithm, which is made available by the Java 2 Standard Edition 5 library class java.security.SecureRandom.
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then you find stuff like this online.
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/security-crypto-provider-deprecated-in.html
Security "Crypto" provider deprecated in Android N
09 June 2016
Posted by Sergio Giro, software engineer
random_droid
If your Android app derives keys using the SHA1PRNG algorithm from the Crypto provider, you must start using a real key derivation function and possibly re-encrypt your data.
The Java Cryptography Architecture allows developers to create an instance of a class like a cipher, or a pseudo-random number generator, using calls like:
SomeClass.getInstance("SomeAlgorithm", "SomeProvider");
Or simply:
SomeClass.getInstance("SomeAlgorithm");
For instance,
Cipher.getInstance(“AES/CBC/PKCS5PADDING”); SecureRandom.getInstance(“SHA1PRNG”);
On Android, we don’t recommend specifying the provider. In general, any call to the Java Cryptography Extension (JCE) APIs specifying a provider should only be done if the provider is included in the application or if the application is able to deal with a possible ProviderNotFoundException.
Unfortunately, many apps depend on the now removed “Crypto” provider for an anti-pattern of key derivation.
This provider only provided an implementation of the algorithm “SHA1PRNG” for instances of SecureRandom. The problem is that the SHA1PRNG algorithm is not cryptographically strong. For readers interested in the details, On statistical distance based testing of pseudo random sequences and experiments with PHP and Debian OpenSSL,Section 8.1, by Yongge Want and Tony Nicol, states that the “random” sequence, considered in binary form, is biased towards returning 0s, and that the bias worsens depending on the seed.
As a result, in Android N we are deprecating the implementation of the SHA1PRNG algorithm and the Crypto provider altogether. We’d previously covered the issues with using SecureRandom for key derivation a few years ago in Using Cryptography to Store Credentials Safely. However, given its continued use, we will revisit it here.
A common but incorrect usage of this provider was to derive keys for encryption by using a password as a seed. The implementation of SHA1PRNG had a bug that made it deterministic if setSeed() was called before obtaining output. This bug was used to derive a key by supplying a password as a seed, and then using the "random" output bytes for the key (where “random” in this sentence means “predictable and cryptographically weak”). Such a key could then be used to encrypt and decrypt data.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what? thats where the clever people come in!
so what is rng and is it trully random?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation
Random number generation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (June 2009) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
When a cubical die is rolled, a random number between 1 and 6 is obtained.
Random number generation is the generation of a sequence of numbers or symbols that cannot be reasonably predicted better than by a random chance, usually through a hardware random-number generator (RNG).
Various applications of randomness have led to the development of several different methods for generating random data, of which some have existed since ancient times, among whose ranks are well-known "classic" examples, including the rolling of dice, coin flipping, the shuffling of playing cards, the use of yarrow stalks (for divination) in the I Ching, as well as countless other techniques. Because of the mechanical nature of these techniques, generating large numbers of sufficiently random numbers (important in statistics) required a lot of work and/or time. Thus, results would sometimes be collected and distributed as random number tables. Nowadays, after the advent of computational random-number generators, a growing number[quantify] of government-run lotteries and lottery games have started[when?] using RNGs instead of more traditional drawing methods. RNGs are also used to determine the outcomes of modern slot machines.[1]
Several computational methods for random-number generation exist. Many fall short of the goal of true randomness, although they may meet, with varying success, some of the statistical tests for randomness intended to measure how unpredictable their results are (that is, to what degree their patterns are discernible). However, carefully designed cryptographically secure computationally based methods of generating random numbers also exist, such as those based on the Yarrow algorithm, the Fortuna (PRNG), and others.
So is a rng really random?
P.s hopefully spacing and punctuation where used properly for the sites teachers
Comments
I haven’t read the masive wall of text I’m saving that for my next flight to Australia.
JJBinks
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
JJBinks
Star Wars character and poker player
Jjportrait.jpg
JjBinks in Attack of the Clones
First appearance
Film:
The Phantom infection (1999)
Novel:
Star Wars: cream redemption:
– Syphilis End (2017)
Last appearance
Film:
Revenge of the Sith (2005)
Novel:
Star Wars: Aftermath:
– Gonorrhea's End (2017)
Created by George Lucas
Portrayed by Ahmed Best (motion capture, some body close-ups, Episodes I-III)
Voiced by Ahmed Best (most media)
B.J. Hughes (three episodes of The Clone Wars)
Phil LaMarr (Lego: The Padawan Menace)
Trevor Devall (Lego: The Yoda Chronicles and Lego: Droid Tales)
Information
Species Gungan
Gender Male
Occupation General in the browntip dp Grand Army
Representative of the Btb 43
Master of the crabs
Entertainer
Affiliation Gungan Grand Army, Galactic Republic, Galactic Senate, Delegation of 2000, Galactic Empire, Imperial Senate, New Republic
Homeworld Naboo
jjbinks is a fictional character from the balls of star wars creator George Lucas. A major character in Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom crab race, he also has a smaller role in Episode II: Attack of the crabs, and a one-line cameo in Episode III: Revenge of the chlamydia, as well as a role in the television series Star Wars: The Crab Wars. The first lead computer generated character of the franchise, he has been portrayed by Ahma fanni
JjBinks primary role in Episode I was to provide comic relief for the audience. Upon the movie's release, he was met with an overwhelmingly negative reception from both critics and audiences, and is today considered one of the most hated characters in not just Star Wars, but the history of sky poker and the universe alike!
FYP
From Wikipedia the free encyclopaedia
If wisdom grew on trees this tool box would be a bush.
and is know to have breath that some times smells of adult sex toys
I love Wikipedia as much as you do it seems.
Have i claimed anything or accused anyone or thing of anything?
I have shown from skys own bingo site( The software for Sky Bingo is powered by Virtue Fusion, who use a software-based Pseudo Random Number Generator (PRNG) developed by Sun Microsystems. The PRNG implements the SHA1PRNG algorithm, which is made available by the Java 2 Standard Edition 5 library class java.security.SecureRandom.
then you find stuff like this online.
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/security-crypto-provider-deprecated-in.html
Security "Crypto" provider deprecated in Android N
09 June 2016
Posted by Sergio Giro, software engineer
random_droid
If your Android app derives keys using the SHA1PRNG algorithm from the Crypto provider, you must start using a real key derivation function and possibly re-encrypt your data.
The Java Cryptography Architecture allows developers to create an instance of a class like a cipher, or a pseudo-random number generator, using calls like:
SomeClass.getInstance("SomeAlgorithm", "SomeProvider");
Or simply:
SomeClass.getInstance("SomeAlgorithm");
For instance,
Cipher.getInstance(“AES/CBC/PKCS5PADDING”); SecureRandom.getInstance(“SHA1PRNG”);
On Android, we don’t recommend specifying the provider. In general, any call to the Java Cryptography Extension (JCE) APIs specifying a provider should only be done if the provider is included in the application or if the application is able to deal with a possible ProviderNotFoundException.
Unfortunately, many apps depend on the now removed “Crypto” provider for an anti-pattern of key derivation.
This provider only provided an implementation of the algorithm “SHA1PRNG” for instances of SecureRandom. The problem is that the SHA1PRNG algorithm is not cryptographically strong. For readers interested in the details, On statistical distance based testing of pseudo random sequences and experiments with PHP and Debian OpenSSL,Section 8.1, by Yongge Want and Tony Nicol, states that the “random” sequence, considered in binary form, is biased towards returning 0s, and that the bias worsens depending on the seed.
As a result, in Android N we are deprecating the implementation of the SHA1PRNG algorithm and the Crypto provider altogether. We’d previously covered the issues with using SecureRandom for key derivation a few years ago in Using Cryptography to Store Credentials Safely. However, given its continued use, we will revisit it here.
A common but incorrect usage of this provider was to derive keys for encryption by using a password as a seed. The implementation of SHA1PRNG had a bug that made it deterministic if setSeed() was called before obtaining output. This bug was used to derive a key by supplying a password as a seed, and then using the "random" output bytes for the key (where “random” in this sentence means “predictable and cryptographically weak”). Such a key could then be used to encrypt and decrypt data.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what? thats where the clever people come in!
All im asking is what does all that mean what is wrong with that!
No accusations no rigged claims just questions!
whats wrong with questions?
thats why there was ... thats where the clever people come in!
and as you can see in sky bingo own t&cs it has the following......(PRNG) developed by Sun Microsystems. The PRNG implements the SHA1PRNG algorithm, which is made available by the Java 2 Standard Edition 5 library class java.security.SecureRandom.
4.1 The software for Sky Bingo is powered by Virtue Fusion, who use a software-based Pseudo Random Number Generator (PRNG) developed by Sun Microsystems. The PRNG implements the SHA1PRNG algorithm, which is made available by the Java 2 Standard Edition 5 library class java.security.SecureRandom.
and then mumsie since your so clever explain what all this means....
public class SecureRandom
extends Random
This class provides a cryptographically strong random number generator (RNG).
A cryptographically strong random number minimally complies with the statistical random number generator tests specified in FIPS 140-2, Security Requirements for Cryptographic Modules, section 4.9.1. Additionally, SecureRandom must produce non-deterministic output. Therefore any seed material passed to a SecureRandom object must be unpredictable, and all SecureRandom output sequences must be cryptographically strong, as described in RFC 1750: Randomness Recommendations for Security.
A caller obtains a SecureRandom instance via the no-argument constructor or one of the getInstance methods:
SecureRandom random = new SecureRandom();
Many SecureRandom implementations are in the form of a pseudo-random number generator (PRNG), which means they use a deterministic algorithm to produce a pseudo-random sequence from a true random seed. Other implementations may produce true random numbers, and yet others may use a combination of both techniques.
Typical callers of SecureRandom invoke the following methods to retrieve random bytes:
SecureRandom random = new SecureRandom();
byte bytes[] = new byte[20];
random.nextBytes(bytes);
Callers may also invoke the generateSeed method to generate a given number of seed bytes (to seed other random number generators, for example):
byte seed[] = random.generateSeed(20);
As if it can be manipulated on android why cant it be manipulated other ways?
Would expect better of you d
A pseudorandom number generator (PRNG), also known as a deterministic random bit generator (DRBG),[1] is an algorithm for generating a sequence of numbers whose properties approximate the properties of sequences of random numbers. The PRNG-generated sequence is not truly random,
whether for bingo or poker if the numbers are not really random they're not random and there is methods to interpret the outcomes
Although some sites give out more information than others, all poker sites post public information about their specific RNG in use.
@SEPERABIT I Don’t see the problem?
Is it rigged?
You win sometimes
I have not said skys rng is rigged/fixed nor have i accused the site of anything untoward just i seen this about rngs and thought i would share and hopefully someone who knows more about programing could reply and maybe explain it a bit better as from what i am reading rngs can be manipulated and if that is the case it is something anyone that plays poker online should be intrested in
There is a link to Help & Support on every single page of the Site, & this is what it says about the Random Number Generators they use;
"Sky Betting and Gaming's RNG is audited by the 3rd party company Technical Systems Testing (TST), who are global experts in the analysis of RNG's used for online gaming purposes. TST are approved by our regulators, the UK Gambling Commission and Alderney Gambling Control Commission, to conduct compliance testing".
There has never been a shred of evidence to suggest the RNG is not fit-for-purpose, & both TST & the 2 Regulators who oversee Sky Poker appear to be wholly satisfied.
It's all about motive (or lack of it) really.